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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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The Romanov Family

I've recently become quite interested behind the tragic story of the Romanovs, the last Russian royal family. I know it was a time of "civil war" between the country as the Bolsheviks tried to seize power, but it just saddens me so deeply that they killed 5 beautiful and innocent chrilden in such a horrific manner

Perhaps some Russians or anyone with a good sense of that history could debrief me a bit on why the soldiers who were there to supposedly protect them in turn decided to kill them. I know that there was an order for their execution but was it only carried out by them to save their own hides?

From my research it seems that altough Nicholas was not a superb ruler he was an excellent father. Just so sad what happened to that family.

They recently found the two remaining bodies of the children, which if proven to be so, will be put away the rumors that Anastasia or Maria escaped and lived on. Perhaps it is better that way.

Do you think there is anyway Maria or Anastasia still lived on, and who was scientifically considered to be the other child along with Alexei to be at a different burial site?


Any further information on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 08:05 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

Do your go to school in North Carolina. Will just went over this in my global connections class
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

I suggest you read "Animal Farm" by George Orwell if this history interests you.

There are so many conspiracies concerning Anastasia and Maria surviving the execution, especially Anastasia. There was one lady in particular who attracted a lot of attention by claiming she was Anastasia a few years back. I personally think it's a bit too much of a romantic notion to believe that either of them survived.

Nicholas was, by all accounts, a great father, but a terrible Tsar. He was disinterested in the job, and had not been trained for it (his brother was meant to be the next Tsar). His wife Alexandra was disliked by many Russians for many reasons, ranging from her strong-mindedness (many blame her for pushing Nicholas to retain autocracy and to ignore the demands of the peasants, who made up over 80% of the population) and the fact that she was a German, or part German at least. Lots of rumours went around towards the end of the dynasty that she was a German spy.

Sorry this is quite an unstructured post.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 08:22 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

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I suggest you read "Animal Farm" by George Orwell if this history interests you.

There are so many conspiracies concerning Anastasia and Maria surviving the execution, especially Anastasia. There was one lady in particular who attracted a lot of attention by claiming she was Anastasia a few years back. I personally think it's a bit too much of a romantic notion to believe that either of them survived.

Nicholas was, by all accounts, a great father, but a terrible Tsar. He was disinterested in the job, and had not been trained for it (his brother was meant to be the next Tsar). His wife Alexandra was disliked by many Russians for many reasons, ranging from her strong-mindedness (many blame her for pushing Nicholas to retain autocracy and to ignore the demands of the peasants, who made up over 80% of the population) and the fact that she was a German, or part German at least. Lots of rumours went around towards the end of the dynasty that she was a German spy.

Sorry this is quite an unstructured post.


Do Russian care about the fact that they(past Russian) basically killed off a major part of their history or do you all just sorta not really think about it.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 08:23 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

Their funeral was only 9 years ago, although so many Russians believed the bones were authentic, despite all the scientific evidence to support their authenticity.

Also, concerning the pretenders, there is a long history of pretenders in Russia, dating back centuries. And it's not just been the Romanovs either, it's all the Russian Royals who have disappeared/died. I think most of it is and just people trying to get attention. They can get away with it because so much of that history is blurred.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 08:41 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

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Do Russian care about the fact that they(past Russian) basically killed off a major part of their history or do you all just sorta not really think about it.
Hmmm...I can't really speak for all Russians, but, like I said, so many important Russian people refused to attend the funeral , for example the President of the time, the late Yeltsin, and the Russian Orthodox Church refused to recognise the bones as authentic. For sure there is a lot of hatred about what the Romanovs did, but that tends to be overshadowed by the politics and leaders that followed them, if you know what and who I mean. Having said that, leaders like Stalin (and even Ivan the Terrible) were almost yearned for by Russians (especially the young) when there was a tremendous loss of self-esteem. There was nostalgia for past rule, even though it had been so oppressive and ruled by fear, the sentiment was that at least there was order, and of course victories and parades. That's why Putin is so popular, because he seems to keep order like our previous leaders, but is also an "everyman". There are some who think that Russia always has nostalgia for the past because we have never fully confronted the past, or repented. For example, many Russians hate Khrushchev because he denounced Stalin and was partially responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. There was a huge rush to be rid of the Soviet regime, and all of a sudden we were being told that the Soviet period which had gone on for almost 100 years, had been for nothing. So of course once this had been eradicated, there was a loss of long-held beliefs and pride in our nation, this is why many Russians yearn for the Soviet Union to be back, or at least the feelings and beliefs that came with it. Hence why Stalin is scarily popular among Russians, especially the Russian youth.

Wow, I'm sorry, you don't have to read all that crap. I'm just saying what I know, and what I pick up on as a Russian, but of course public opinion is so diverse, and there are so many parts of Russia I have never visited. And this thread is not about Stalin or the Soviet Union, so sorry.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 2007, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Romanov Family

Thanks for your information, it's nice to get an actual Russian's response. I actually read Animal Farm in school a few years ago but didn't pay enoug attention to it. I remember liking it but perhaps I'll give it another read.

Why exactly do some Russians believe that the bones aren't authentic?

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 2007, 10:19 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

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Thanks for your information, it's nice to get an actual Russian's response. I actually read Animal Farm in school a few years ago but didn't pay enoug attention to it. I remember liking it but perhaps I'll give it another read.

Why exactly do some Russians believe that the bones aren't authentic?
It gets pretty complex, but basically the Soviet Union kept pretty quiet on the issue of the bodies, and a lot of the Bolsheviks had boasted after the execution that no one will ever know what became of the Romanov bodies (how wrong they were). There is the old belief that the bodies were cut into pieces and burnt and put into acid. The Ipatiev house, where they were killed, was actually closed off to the public at one point. In fact, many people who live in Ekaterinberg don't want to believe the bones to be authentic because they perceive it as some kind of scar on their town, and want to shake off their sinister reputation I suppose. The last time I visited Ekaterinberg the streets still bear the names of Bolshevik states, and some pictures of Stalin remain. It may just be a coincidence, but Boris Yeltsin in fact came from Ekaterinburg. Yeltsin had always been very .... I don't really know what the word is, ...sensitive maybe, on the issue of the Romanovs, and ordered the destruction of Ipatiev house. Also, I think the excavation job done on the bones site was pretty poor - with the rush to destroy Ipatiev House, Soviet officials demanded that the bones be exhumed within days, when it rally should have taken weeks. Also, there was a time (and some people still believe it today) that one particular woman claiming to be Anastasia (Anna Anderson) was seriously considered to be Anastasia. There were films made about her, and I even think the British monarchy funded all this research to find out whether she was truly Anastasia. It turned into a huge royalty-controlled matter, as if everyone wanted her to be Anastasia.

I honestly think the country is still so sensitive about the last tsar. To some he is known as "Bloody Nicholas", to others, the person who paved the way (albeit through his own blunders) to socialism which is seen as good for the country.The issue of the bones is still a highly sensitive issue, where Russians are torn between recognising the past and atoning themselves, or dismissing the past and looking towards the future. As for why the bones might be seen to be inauthentic, the Orthodox Church has a bit to do with that as well, but that is all pretty complex, I can't really get my head around it. What I do know is that the Church wanted to canonise the Romanovs, and they also refused to accept that the bones were authentic without the acknowledgement or research of an international commission. For memory, there was some dissenting opinions on the authenticity of the bones by some international investigators. I think a Japanese research team concluded that the bones were not those of the Romanovs. Apparently the Japanese had access to Nicholas' DNA or something, more so than any other research team, and they determined that the bones were inauthentic. So of course that impacts upon the Orthodox Church and the Russians who support the Church. Also the Romanov family still exist, and there is a lot of division between them, almost reflecting the division of many Russians on the issue. Many of the Romanovs still think that Russia will return to monarchy (or autocracy), and they once again will rule .

The Romanovs in general agree with the Church that the bones are not authentic. Only 1 Romanov family member attended the funeral in 1998, and even he said he wasn't sure if they were real, but they just represented a symbol of the past.

Anyway, the Russian government declared in '98 that the bones were authentic, but then some American studies also dismissed this. I think it was a Stanford University study? And then there were questions over the DNA, but then some claimed the results were politically motivated, and so on and so on. If you're really interested you can probably research it and get more detailed information.

To answer your question shortly, it's a political issue, a religious issue, a family issue, and a national issue.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 2007, 02:01 PM
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Re: The Romanov Family

First thing I guess I should say is that i'm not Russian - but very interested in Russian history - even predating the last Romanovs.

All I'd really like to add is that I agree that Nicholas was not real Tsar material and his wife (though thoroughly well-intentioned) was a bit of liability where imperial matters where concerned.

The end they met was terrible though. Did they not ask the British royal family for help (Alexandra was a relative of Queen Victoria) for help to flea Russia but they refused. I think this was quite a shameful thing to have done considering it ended in the deaths of five innocent children.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 17th, 2007, 05:09 PM
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Re: The Romanov Family

Interesting subject
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 2007, 10:12 PM
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Re: The Romanov Family

I have followed the Romanov story since the bones were found and the research that was involved. The pretender "Anna Andersen" was proven not to be Anastasia because her DNA did not match any of the surviving Romanov relatives. Also the bones were proven to be the Romanovs remains through Anthropolgical reconstructions and through the use of testing using mitochondrial DNA. Mitchondrial dna is different from nuclear dna in that it is passed down unchanged through the Mother's side of the family. So dna comparisons can be done using female members of the surviving Romanovs. It's like doing a reverse paternity test. Also Tsarina Alexandra Romanov was related to Queen Victoria, so comparisons of DNA were also made using the British royal family. The two bodies that are missing are Anastasia's and Alexei's. Though I have not heard much on recent discoveries, I'm sure some new insight should be coming soon. You should read "The Last Tsar" by Edvard Radzinsky. It has some good stuff in it including diary entries, journals, and about the Romanov excavation.
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 2007, 02:02 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

WoW. Very interesting.
Didn't they also killed Nicholas' brother, Michel I think?

Wasn't the theories of Anastasia or Maria surviving because of the jewels in their dresses?
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 2007, 02:26 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

I was always interested in this family's history as well. Like what do the recent Romanov's have to say of the family's ordeal? How do other Russians treat them?

Also, I also found Rasputin to be a very interesting character in the mix as well..was he really as evil and magical as the Disney movie made him out to be? lol Altho im sure they embelished on that

I always saw this family to be very unfortunate..not only about the whole Nicholas not really knowing what he was doing..but also with the children. 4 beautiful daughters and the youngest Alexei..they finally have a son and he inherited that genetic disease.forgot what it was called. quite sad

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 2007, 02:37 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

Actually, Mick Jagger confessed in Sympathy for the

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain*


* Probably @ some chair ump who was not gonna change the call.
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 2007, 04:26 AM
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Re: The Romanov Family

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I was always interested in this family's history as well. Like what do the recent Romanov's have to say of the family's ordeal? How do other Russians treat them?

Also, I also found Rasputin to be a very interesting character in the mix as well..was he really as evil and magical as the Disney movie made him out to be? lol Altho im sure they embelished on that

I always saw this family to be very unfortunate..not only about the whole Nicholas not really knowing what he was doing..but also with the children. 4 beautiful daughters and the youngest Alexei..they finally have a son and he inherited that genetic disease.forgot what it was called. quite sad
Hemophilia I believe. I believe a lot of the public blamed Alexandra for passing the disease into the family as well.
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