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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Affirmative Action?

Seeing as I'm close to heading off to college and start applying for universitites, I've began to think about this disputed issue. What are your thoughts about it. Personally I'm against it because we don't control what race or sex we were born into. I know there is still a lot of prejudice out there but I feel this is also racist towards others in return. It's a difficult issue but I want to know how others think about it.


If you don't know what it is then go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

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Last edited by Cat's Pajamas; May 18th, 2007 at 03:33 AM.
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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 03:23 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

LOL. Affirmative action isn't racist towards white people. If you think it is, you obviously aren't quite educated enough with the history of this country to understand the creation of such a system and the need for it in the society we live in today. With that said, certain things about the system must be changed (not because it's racist; because it's flawed), but it is needed in order to maintain some sort of equality in a culture primarily controlled by white males. They have had an unfair advantage for hundreds of years and if affirmative action gives minorities and women an opportunity to gain ground, then I'm all for it.

With that said, I do think there needs to be more focus on America's school systems and the discrepancies in funding that allow such a huge gap in the number of college applicants from minority communities to exist. Affirmative action often seems like a cop out; a way to keep these groups happy while deflecting attention away from other issues that affect the number of college graduates and employees in the work place.

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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Affirmative Action?

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Originally Posted by ماذا سيكون سيكون View Post
LOL. Affirmative action isn't racist towards white people. If you think it is, you obviously aren't quite educated enough with the history of this country to understand the creation of such a system and the need for it in the society we live in today. With that said, certain things about the system must be changed (not because it's racist; because it's flawed), but it is needed in order to maintain some sort of equality in a culture primarily controlled by white males. They have had an unfair advantage for hundreds of years and if affirmative action gives minorities and women an opportunity to gain ground, then I'm all for it.

That's pretty much all I have to say about this subject.
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 03:54 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Affirmative action is a necessary evil. Minorities do not have a level playing field in American society, so it's necessary to create an artificial one. Even with affirmative action, they still are at a disadvantage.


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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 04:03 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Most people don't really know what affirmative action is. They think that some loser with a 1.9 and a -457 on their SAT's gets into a college over someone with a 3.9 and 1580 just because they're a minority when that's not how it works at all. Even though we supposedly don't allow blatant racism and prejudice to exist that doesn't mean that the legacy of those things don't still exist and affect people. Minorities were purposely oppressed and measures were taken to insure that they were second class citizens so measures, like affirmative action, need to be in place to level the playing field considering we still have a very long way to go to have anywhere near a level playing field.

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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 06:50 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Any form of discrimination is wrong even if it is positive. Affirmative action won't stop someone being angry or upset they didn't get into their first choice university or a particular job they applied for, which just breeds resentment, even if everybody knows why it happens.

Found quite a good example of why its unfair on the net.

The plan is to continue to discriminate on the basis of acquired characteristics, like race or gender, but with a positive purpose -- namely, establishing greater fairness or justice. The strategy is to select people using the same acquired characteristics that originally brought disadvantage and, by giving them special consideration, turn that acquired characteristic into a compensatory advantage. It is, in effect, using racism to combat racism, sexism to contest sexism. After all, acquired characteristics, such as race, are still the basis for judgment. But what this approach overlooks is that the individuals who suffered the injustice are often not the individuals gaining the compensatory advantage. Nor are those who enjoyed the benefits of past discrimination necessarily the same individuals who pay the costs of compensatory reparation. It is a simple-minded mentality that believes that past injustices are somehow undone by present remedies. Just as easily we end up with two wrongs that don't make a right.

Consider a hypothetical "positive discrimination" college admission policy that assigns preferences based on gender, race and ethnic heritage -- all acquired characteristics. There are more candidates than places at this college, and two candidates are tied with identical cumulative averages and admission test scores for the last opening.

One of these candidates is a Hispanic female, let's call her Juanita. She is Cuban - American from an affluent neighborhood in West Palm Beach, Florida. Her father is an extraordinarily wealthy Florida cigar manufacturer, her mother a physician. Juanita was raised in luxury, traveled the world with her parents on extraordinary vacations, had private dance and music lessons, lived in a home filled with books, magazines, newspapers and original art, enjoyed a circle of friends from similarly sophisticated backgrounds, and so forth. Juanita, however, was unmotivated in school and did not utilize the advantages afforded by her background. In fact, her indifference to school work led to her failing out of two exclusive private schools before her parents angrily placed her in West Palm Beach's very well-funded public high school (the tax base in the district is vast) from which she barely graduated.

The other candidate for the college's last available space is a white male, let's call him Sam. Sam is from Panther Hollow, West Virginia. Sam's father, a laid-off coal miner, died of black lung when Sam was twelve. (It so happens that Juanita's family owns stock in the coal company Sam's dad worked for. It was an attractive investment because of its unusually profitability which the company maintained by dodging coal dust suppression regulations and laying off middle-aged miners.) Sam's home is a battered trailer more filled with overdue bills than books. Sam has never been more than 100 miles away from home. His friends are as poor and unsophisticated as he is. Sam's mother, who had to drop out of school to support her widowed mother, has worked as a waitress in the local diner since her husband died. To help his family while in high school Sam worked 8 hours a day at minimum wages in the same diner busing tables and washing dishes. Despite this burden, Sam did the best he could in his badly underfunded public school (the tax base for Panther Valley School District is meager) and, with great effort studying between bursts of business at the diner, ended up, like Juanita, barely graduating from high school and with an average score on the college's admission test.

Guess who gets into the college's last available space, and figure out how that sets aright some past injustice.

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Last edited by Bezz; May 18th, 2007 at 06:56 AM.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 07:51 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Well I'm against people who are less qualified getting prime spots based on who they know or some social construct that makes it ok to give a pass to *some* who are less qualified but not others. That's right, I'm against legacies, I'm against the good boy network. I'm against clearly less talented people getting ahead of others......you know who I'm talking about.........Blake.

So as long as we live in a society who will willingly vote someone who is half as talented forward.....I don't want to hear about no bullshit Affirmative Action.

Wipe out the other unfair advantages then get back to me about Affirmative Action.

That's what I think about Affirmative Action and the cry babies who actually think that's what is keeping them down.
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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 07:57 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Oh and Bezz, remind me to cry for that white male who didn't get the last spot despite the fact that the majority of the spots are filled by white males.

Funny how people are only concerned about unfair advantage when someone who has all the advantages going for them may not get what they want but could care less that kids in the inner city and poor areas are getting shafted the first day they go to kindergarten.

No they don't care that girls are steered away from math and science but let the last spot go to a women in an engineering school and THEN it's the problem.

The majority of the poeple are not opposed to the concept of some getting a break or an advantage....they are opposed to that person not being them.
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 08:24 AM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

I dont understand why white people always focus on racial affirmative action, especially since white women have been the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative action.


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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 02:34 PM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Quote:
Originally Posted by King. View Post
I dont understand why white people always focus on racial affirmative action, especially since white women have been the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative action.
because they are white, self-absorbed and believe they should come first in everything. duh?!

when oprah was opening the school in south africa, the white folks there were complaining that the students were black. they did not care that those black children lived in squalor and they did not care that the blacks represent more than 90 percent of the population.

they only see themselves. history has shown that.

so, why ask why? let history be your guide.
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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 02:37 PM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas View Post
Seeing as I'm close to heading off to college and start applying for universitites, I've began to think about this disputed issue. What are your thoughts about it. Personally I'm against it because we don't control what race or sex we were born into. I know there is still a lot of prejudice out there but I feel this is also racist towards others in return. It's a difficult issue but I want to know how others think about it.


If you don't know what it is then go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action
since you're going off to college, my first word of advice to you is to stop using wikipedia as a source of information.

and please stop posing and acting as though you care or are educated on the facts.

instead, read "when affirmative action was white" and other books since you are going off to college.

but has it ever occurred to you that you may not be as smart or capable as you imagine?
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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 03:08 PM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

I can't answer the question, because I am unsure of what my opinion is on this issue. I see both sides of the story, and find it impossible to ultimately declare one of them as the best one.

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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Affirmative Action?

Quote:
Originally Posted by woosey View Post
since you're going off to college, my first word of advice to you is to stop using wikipedia as a source of information.

and please stop posing and acting as though you care or are educated on the facts.

instead, read "when affirmative action was white" and other books since you are going off to college.

but has it ever occurred to you that you may not be as smart or capable as you imagine?
Ok wow

I'm asking to discuss a topic in a simple mature way and then you go and act like this?.. That's a lot of nerve.

And yes I do care and who are you to say I don't, you don't even know me. And also, I never said I was super smart and knew all the facts. Why don't you stop jumping to conclusions and stop acting like an ignorant bully.

And judging by past comments I've seen from you; notably your anti-mixed marriages, I'd say you are the one who is not as smart as you may have imagined.


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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 10:44 PM
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Re: Affirmative Action?

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Originally Posted by Cat's Pajamas View Post
Ok wow

I'm asking to discuss a topic in a simple mature way and then you go and act like this?.. That's a lot of nerve.

And yes I do care and who are you to say I don't, you don't even know me. And also, I never said I was super smart and knew all the facts. Why don't you stop jumping to conclusions and stop acting like an ignorant bully.

And judging by past comments I've seen from you; notably your anti-mixed marriages, I'd say you are the one who is not as smart as you may have imagined.


Morons like you boil my blood.
morons? look in the mirror.

i've never seen a thread here about "mixed" marriages first. second, your opener was pretty silly.

your oh i know injustice exists but 'why do i have, a white person, have to suffer from this stuff? i didn't do anything. i love minorities and defend them at every turn.'

those black folk are hurting me. poor thing. you obviously don't get it.

newsflash - this topic is not simple. and if you truly don't have a clue, then don't bring it up.

you believe white people are victimized by affirmative action.

like i said since you are going to college you should actually get some grounding in history becuase my dear you are not up on it.

you've got no clue about some basics of white supremacy.
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2007, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Affirmative Action?

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Originally Posted by woosey View Post
morons? look in the mirror.

i've never seen a thread here about "mixed" marriages first. second, your opener was pretty silly.

your oh i know injustice exists but 'why do i have, a white person, have to suffer from this stuff? i didn't do anything. i love minorities and defend them at every turn.'

those black folk are hurting me. poor thing. you obviously don't get it.

newsflash - this topic is not simple. and if you truly don't have a clue, then don't bring it up.

you believe white people are victimized by affirmative action.

like i said since you are going to college you should actually get some grounding in history becuase my dear you are not up on it.

you've got no clue about some basics of white supremacy.

I recall quite vividly you being upset that Venus was dating a white male sub-par golfer. You couldn't seem to get it through your head that the relationship might not be materialistic but that's another story. Secondly, I didn't say the topic was simple, I said I hoped we could discuss it in a casual manner, but that's out the window since you showed up with your personal attacks. I know about the white supremacy of America's past and in a lot of places, the present. I don't know where you can read from my posts that I don't know anything about it. Something like this isn't really going to be a problem for me, seeing as I have a good GPA (3.84) and extracurricular activities. Either way, I believe affirmative action will always exist and it does a lot of good for those who have been at a disadvantage their whole lives but it also hurts other who have put forth effort as well. Most times when someone of a different race or sex who gets picked over a white boy, they have similar accomplishments on their transcript. I think reform in some way or form is needed.

Not specifically a question for woosey, but could colleges not just accept more students?

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