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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2007, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

As he has every right to do. His brother volunteered, died by
friendly fire. Making matters far worse, the military did not give
the family direct and correct answers early on. The familiy had
to fight for every bit of information they got on how Pat died.


It's a sad and pathetic story. Tillman volunteered, served bravely
and honorably. He was a hero. He did a lot of good in his time in
the military.

The military handled it all wrong after he was accidentally killed however.

No two ways about that.
The family deserves answers.

They've received answers, but, not in a decent or professional
manner. I agree with them on all of that completely. The military
way of dealing with friendly fire deaths, accidental deaths in the
field, or in training, is terrible.

However, I don't think there was some grand conspiracy to mistreat
the family, cover up for some high official, etc.

I think it was the way the military works - plodding, secretive
inside allegiances, messy, slow. Going back decades.

It was an accident.
It should not have happened.
But, accidents in the field of battle, in training, etc., happen
regularly in the military. Pat Tillman was one of the accidents.

I do think regular officers in the field, with some enlisted men,
made poor decisions on how to handle the high profile friendly
fire death of Tillman. They knew he was famous. They knew they
would be blamed. They tried to cover up as much as they could
right there, in the field, while they could.

They knew they would be blamed, rightly so. They knew it would
be headline news.

It was still an accident. But, how the people immediately there,
working with Tillman, serving with him, mishandled how they should
have dealt w/the death.

Those immediately above them, not in the field, should have
ordered an immediate in depth investigation because he was
famous. Not accept the story they were given early on. As they
did.


That movie Meg Ryan did about a Gulf War 'friendly fire' death is
more typical of the way the military handles things....inside info,
story comes out long after the fact, family is kept in the dark until
the family digs up and demands answers, etc.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2007, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

I think the hearing should concentrate on ways to improve
the way the military handles friendly fire deaths, accidental
deaths, how they investigate field deaths, how they treat
soldiers involved in the investigations (don't let them get out of
the military before investigations are done), civilian review
boards, etc.


As it is, the hearings are meant to hurt the military by the Democrats,
slime all of the soldiers with one incident. One incident that has happened
many times in past wars, over the past two hundred years. Sadly, things
can go wrong in the military in the field.

They need to work on figuring out how best to investigate these incidents,
while avoiding cover ups, glossing over details, blaming enlisted men over
officers, etc.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2007, 07:08 PM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2007, 07:49 PM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

I think you are right about the military's attitude of secrecy in such things...and in similar cases involving British soldiers the Americans have been obstructive too...

But along with the Jessica Lynch story it reflects a wish of people higher up the food chain to spin stories for propaganda reasons...regardless of the truth.

In the end such an approach does great harm when the truth surfaces.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2007, 07:53 PM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

Quote:
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2007, 09:32 PM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2007, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

Sorry, I recall reading most of this information after the military's last
report on the Tillman friendly fire death - the military found negligence
on the part of officers who did not ask for more information from the
reporting soldiers and officers at the scene. Not that they tried to
hide things, they intentionally didn't seek out more answers though.

That was done months ago. It was in the papers. Questions were asked
over a year ago, about the unanswered areas of the investigation. It
was on the internet and tv as well. Conservative talk radio had a lot
on this, and how it was handled, and McCain's role, and Kyl's role, and
others, in demanding the family be answered better.



The Rangers are an elite unit, and w/i itself, yes, it seems some officers
in the direct arena tried to sugarcoat the accidential death of their
most famous Ranger.

That was wrong. Criminal? I don't think so.

Breaking with the code and conduct expected of The Rangers
and the Army - yes. The family, and Tillman himself, deserved
better from the group and the people he served with.

The death was an accident. Period. That isn't in dispute.

How The Rangers, a very famous and elite group in the military,
handled it with the Army and the Pentagon is what is in question.


To see Jessica Lynch on the Congressional made for tv stand is almost
amusing. She said over & over, years ago, her story was not as heroic
as it was made out to be by the media, and the Pentagon. She made a lot
of money with her book deal, and following deals as well. She didn't exactly
shy away from the role of 'hero' to make a buck. But, now, she's more or
less denouncing what the military said about her, or used her.

Personally, I've heard her say several times over the years the real hero
figures were those killed and left behind, like the Native American woman
who was killed. Her friend. Extreme Makeover did a deal for her family, and
Lynch had a role in having that done. Which was great.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2007, 09:05 PM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

It is clear from day one that the government was engaging in a cover up in for propaganda purposes. This unhappy episode, the Jessica Lynch story, and the repeated cries about "the surge is working" are all part of the same campaign of lies. For a government that claims to be ruled by Christian principles they need to know that their Bible says "thou shalt not bear false witness" under any circumstances.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2007, 09:54 PM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
It is clear from day one that the government was engaging in a cover up in for propaganda purposes. This unhappy episode, the Jessica Lynch story, and the repeated cries about "the surge is working" are all part of the same campaign of lies. For a government that claims to be ruled by Christian principles they need to know that their Bible says "thou shalt not bear false witness" under any circumstances.
This gang of liars, thieves and incompetents passing themselves off as Christians was, of course, the biggest lie of all.

Small wonder the military screwed all this up, as Bush and his cronies fired, forced to resign or ignored every high-ranking general or admiral who opposed (ie competent) their bogus war.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2007, 12:56 AM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedmax View Post
This gang of liars, thieves and incompetents passing themselves off as Christians was, of course, the biggest lie of all.

Small wonder the military screwed all this up, as Bush and his cronies fired, forced to resign or ignored every high-ranking general or admiral who opposed (ie competent) their bogus war.
But isn't it amazing what people will believe once a leader proclaims himself a follower of 'God' ?

There were many on this site who did, and still do, believe that God speaks to Bush, and told Bush to bring freedom to the Iraqis. And I don't doubt for one second that Bush himself still believes this tripe and that these same lemmings [here on this board] still exist.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
The greatest scholars are not usually the wisest people. - Geoffrey Chaucer

Last edited by RVD; Apr 26th, 2007 at 01:39 AM.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2007, 01:01 AM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

FYI, there is a Bill Moyers' documentary airing tonight on PBS about the media's failure in rooting out the truth regarding Lynch & Tillman. It's at 9pm EST.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2007, 01:46 AM
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Re: Pat Tillman's brother on Capital Hill - blasting military

I must say that I've grown to respect the Tillman's of the world.
First of all they trusted the government to deal with this issue in an honorable manner. But delved into the intimates to discover what really happened. They then take this issue up with the government and never left go of the bone.

Unfortunately, like so many other heinous issues plaguing CapitOIL Hill, nothing will be done about the rampant lying and corruption. And the media will take a mostly hand-off approach due to a fear of being ostracized by the White House. What a bunch of dried up uteruses!


I always wanted to say that.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
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