Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home' - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

'Go Big' - Big increase in the number of troops in Iraq to put down the civil war.

'Go Long' - Fewer troops than present, but in Iraq for 10 - 20 years

'Go home' - Pull out now. Bush has fucked it up so badly, no amount of military force can effect a solution

*** ***

'"Go Big' - We can't. General Eric Shinseki was sacked by the Buish administration for saying it would take several hundred thousand troops to secure post-war Iraq. He was right, but we don't HAVE 'several hundred thousand' additional troops. And the Bushies have done such a good job alienating our allies who have big armies, nobody is offering to help us.

'Go Long' - Forget it. The American people won;t stand for it.

'Go Home' - Not as long as George W. bush continues to masquerade as president.

Conclusion?

Unless Nancy Pelosi cuts off his funding, it's 'Stay The Course' regardless of what the Amrican people want. It's not only Black people george bush doesn't care about. It's American people. or maybe, ultimately, just people.

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Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 11:30 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

Call for a ceasefire.

Conduct negotiations.

Impeach Bush + his evil regime.

Remove Bush + his evil regime.

Conduct a Nuremburg Tribunal.

Imprison Bush + his evil regime.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.



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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 11:34 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

Bullshit propaganda.

Go listen to a John Lennon song or something.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 11:41 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

Anybody who likes Bush's war can go ahead and enlist. Make it your fight and we'll see how you feel about it afterwards.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.



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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 11:58 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
Anybody who likes Bush's war can go ahead and enlist. Make it your fight and we'll see how you feel about it afterwards.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

GO BIG - With 36 separate militia fighting in Iraq, and Iraq gripped by civil war, who does America help? Do we suppress every one of these militia? It's not humanly possible.

GO LONG - To stay the course would mean certain death for our soldiers with no gain discernable gain. This war is LOST, and this war is a dead horse being kick solely by the U.S. WAKE UP CONGRESS!

GO HOME - Is the ONLY sensible option available to us, at this point. Honestly, what could possibly be better for Americans than to see its military extracted from this failed and extremely embarrassing debacle? Iraq will resolve this without American interference, and will do it far better than we ever could. The U.S. administration is corrupt and has shown its true nature to the world at large. Why prolong the agony, and moreover, waste further funding on a fruitless war?

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 12:39 PM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
Anybody who likes Bush's war can go ahead and enlist. Make it your fight and we'll see how you feel about it afterwards.
What if you are not American and are above the age limit to enlist,then what? I would have loved to have joined the U.S. navy where I could visit a girl in every port.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 01:15 PM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by ReeVeeDynasty View Post
GO BIG - With 36 separate militia fighting in Iraq, and Iraq gripped by civil war, who does America help?
How about eliminating them all so democracy can take place?
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 01:19 PM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
Anybody who likes Bush's war can go ahead and enlist. Make it your fight and we'll see how you feel about it afterwards.
Only if when there's a terrorist attack you go volunteer and die instead of those who wants to eliminate terrorism.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 2006, 01:36 PM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

I'm totally torn.

On one hand Iraq is in chaos and as a British voter I feel some degree of responsibility for the actions of my elected government.

It is not clear that British and American troops are securing Iraq rather than merely exacerbating the situation. It's just heart breaking to see how many Iraqis are being maimed daily when most of them want peace and to be able to live their lives in safety. Most of the Iraqi people, from what I've heard, also want us to leave. Having said that, I don't think anybody, including journalists, whose movements are restricted, really knows what is going on in Iraq. It's so complicated and tumultuous.

Moreoever, the war was illegal and if we had no moral or intellectual justification for being in Iraq in 2003, then how can our troops legitimately be there now? And it's our young men and women who are being maimed, too. Often those who have dropped out of school and been deprived of other opportunities in their environments. They are indoctrinated with machismo and patriotism when really they are being sent as cannon fodder if they are powerless to force a cessation to the violence in Iraq. Would our middle-class politicians, whose sons and daughters go to university and become lawyers, doctors, academics, really be so vehement that we should "stay the course" if their children were in the armed services? I doubt it.

On the other hand....

There are echoes of 1991 when Bush Senior resiled from his course and turned away from invading Iraq, leaving the Shiites to be butchered by Saddam. I fear that if we leave now, having been largely responsible for this mess (we are not fully responsible because 99% of civilian deaths at the moment are insurgents killing innocents), then Iraq can only descend into civil war and genocide. Millions rather than thousands will perish.

If we left and those events transpired, Iraq would be an unmitigated disaster which Britain and the U.S would carry on its shoulders for the next 100 years. This is not to mention the fact that the country may become a hub for anti-western terrorists and possible future world wars by making the region even more unstable. If there is one thing which we can do in all of this mess it is to support the democratic government we have allowed the Iraqi people to elect, and to attempt to consolidate by keeping our troops in place and continuing to train the Iraqi police, however fraught such an endeavour may be because of infiltration from insurgents. However bad things may be for Iraq at the moment, and however illegitimate this war was in the first place, there is some hope for Iraq at the moment if we stand fast and focus on the small positives.

Which do I agree with? I vacillate daily.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 2006, 12:39 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
How about eliminating them all so democracy can take place?
And specifically how do you do that?

If you can answer this one very complex question, then you are infinite light years ahead of the world's best thinkers and strategists.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
The greatest scholars are not usually the wisest people. - Geoffrey Chaucer
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 2006, 12:48 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by Steffica Greles View Post
I'm totally torn.

On one hand Iraq is in chaos and as a British voter I feel some degree of responsibility for the actions of my elected government.

It is not clear that British and American troops are securing Iraq rather than merely exacerbating the situation. It's just heart breaking to see how many Iraqis are being maimed daily when most of them want peace and to be able to live their lives in safety. Most of the Iraqi people, from what I've heard, also want us to leave. Having said that, I don't think anybody, including journalists, whose movements are restricted, really knows what is going on in Iraq. It's so complicated and tumultuous.

Moreoever, the war was illegal and if we had no moral or intellectual justification for being in Iraq in 2003, then how can our troops legitimately be there now? And it's our young men and women who are being maimed, too. Often those who have dropped out of school and been deprived of other opportunities in their environments. They are indoctrinated with machismo and patriotism when really they are being sent as cannon fodder if they are powerless to force a cessation to the violence in Iraq. Would our middle-class politicians, whose sons and daughters go to university and become lawyers, doctors, academics, really be so vehement that we should "stay the course" if their children were in the armed services? I doubt it.

On the other hand....

There are echoes of 1991 when Bush Senior resiled from his course and turned away from invading Iraq, leaving the Shiites to be butchered by Saddam. I fear that if we leave now, having been largely responsible for this mess (we are not fully responsible because 99% of civilian deaths at the moment are insurgents killing innocents), then Iraq can only descend into civil war and genocide. Millions rather than thousands will perish.

If we left and those events transpired, Iraq would be an unmitigated disaster which Britain and the U.S would carry on its shoulders for the next 100 years. This is not to mention the fact that the country may become a hub for anti-western terrorists and possible future world wars by making the region even more unstable. If there is one thing which we can do in all of this mess it is to support the democratic government we have allowed the Iraqi people to elect, and to attempt to consolidate by keeping our troops in place and continuing to train the Iraqi police, however fraught such an endeavour may be because of infiltration from insurgents. However bad things may be for Iraq at the moment, and however illegitimate this war was in the first place, there is some hope for Iraq at the moment if we stand fast and focus on the small positives.

Which do I agree with? I vacillate daily.
Excellent post Steffica Greles. I often disagree with your position, but in this case your logic serves to encompass the entire picture. Now all that's left to do is to decide.

To leave these men and woman of your country in such a constant deteriorating situation is tantamount to turning your back and giving up on them. The only certainty between now and when a decision is finally made, is the number of lives lost due to indecision. Hasn't this been the case for the last 2 years already? And whether you realize it or not, you answered the question within the first three paragraphs.

A decision MUST be made, regardless of how unpopular it may be, for at least a step is made that will force the next decision, and the next, and the next...

...until a final resolution is decided upon.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
The greatest scholars are not usually the wisest people. - Geoffrey Chaucer
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 2006, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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Originally Posted by ReeVeeDynasty View Post
GO HOME - Is the ONLY sensible option available to us, at this point. Honestly, what could possibly be better for Americans than to see its military extracted from this failed and extremely embarrassing debacle? Iraq will resolve this without American interference, and will do it far better than we ever could. The U.S. administration is corrupt and has shown its true nature to the world at large. Why prolong the agony, and moreover, waste further funding on a fruitless war?
The problem is, george bush simply isn't going to agree to this option. US forces will be in Iraq in large numbers til bush is out of office.

Maybe one day, we'll know the real reason bush wants the US military in Iraq. But it's not the safety and/or security of Iraqis or Americans.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 2006, 01:51 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

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The problem is, george bush simply isn't going to agree to this option. US forces will be in Iraq in large numbers til bush is out of office.

Maybe one day, we'll know the real reason bush wants the US military in Iraq. But it's not the safety and/or security of Iraqis or Americans.
I was about to post my hope that Congress will do what it did in 31 May 73
Quote:
31 May 73 - The Senate took strong action prohibiting the use of any funds appropriated by Congress to be used for combat activities in Laos or Cambodia. http://www.landscaper.net/timelin.htm
... and halt funding in Iraq, forcing the withdrawal of American troops.
http://hnn.us/articles/31400.html

But then I look at this Congress, and I'm not so sure that they have a strong enough continence to do what needs to be done. Ultimately, and yet again, it will come down to 'the people' saying enough is enough. But like you stated, that will more likely occur in 2008.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
The greatest scholars are not usually the wisest people. - Geoffrey Chaucer

Last edited by RVD; Nov 27th, 2006 at 01:58 AM.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 2006, 02:51 AM
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Re: Iraq Survey Group: 'Go Big, Go long or Go home'

I thought this article in Time Magazine made good points....

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...555130,00.html
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