Who WON the 34 day war in South Lebanon? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,875
                     
Who WON the 34 day war in South Lebanon?

http://www.juancole.com/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Comment
Since the United Nations resolution calling for a halt to hostilities, Prime Minister Olmert, President Bush, Secretary-General Nasrallah, President al-Asad and President Ahmadinejad have all been procliaming the war a personal victory.

I don't know why they would want to claim it.

It was such a stupid war. It was thick-as-two-blocks-of-wood strategy on all sides. It was moronic for the Israelis to plan it out last year. It was idiotic for Hizbullah to cross over into Israel, kill soldiers, and take two captive. It was brain dead for the Israeli officer corps and politicians to think they could get anything positive out of bombing Lebanon back to the stone age and making a million people homeless. It was dim-witted for Hasan Nasrallah to threaten Israelis with releasing poison gases from Haifa chemical plants on them. It was obtuse for the Israelis to confront a dug-in guerrilla movement with green conventional troops marching in straight lines. It was dull of Hizbullah to fire thousands of katyushas into open fields where they mainly damaged wild grass. The few times when the rockets managed to kill someone, it was often an Arab Israeli civilian. Stupid.
A painful perspective for partisans, but for the objective, a quite insightful set of observations.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,875
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbehunter
The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.
Okay. Now you're scaring me. I really want every side in this debacle to wake up and realize they lost. If they can fool themselves into thinking somehow they won, this is just going to happen again.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 04:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Crazy Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Munchkin Land
Posts: 28,584
                     
Crazy Canuck is offline  
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 05:33 AM
Senior Member
 
kiwifan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,740
                     
Thumbs up That's the correct analysis, Israel moves to the right, Hezz dances in the streets

Quote:
The losers - the people of Lebanon and northern Israel, also the civilians in the Israeli government including Ehud Olmert.

The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.


The Admins should lock this thread right now.

It is 100% accurate & 100% finished.

to microbehunter (neva heard of ya before today)

to Volcana's bleak outlook (cuz it is going to happen all over again within 3 years only it will be worse - more and better weapons on both sides)

to Becca, for the concluding statement on the matter.

Last edited by kiwifan; Aug 17th, 2006 at 02:49 PM.
kiwifan is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 06:30 AM
country flag jmd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 457
                     
so much destroyed in lebanon so many dead both sides. Is there a winner?

maybe syria iran, the only sure looser is Lebanon, not hezbolla.
jmd is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Senior Member
 
hingis-seles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,167
                     
They're all a bunch of fucking idiots. And like it's already been mentioned, it'll happen again. It's almost like sitting on a merry-go-round.

FUCK YOU, SEWTA.
[/SIZE]
hingis-seles is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 09:38 AM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
-Ph51-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Migrating!
Posts: 10,779
                     
Certainly not Israel, i'm afraid.

L'important, c'est la rose...
-Ph51- is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 09:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Molineux
Posts: 13,767
                     
The civilians are always the loser in these wars, but the world doesn't care...

MARIA KIRILENKO MARIA SHARAPOVA

WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS FC
furrykitten is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 10:11 AM
Senior Member
 
azdaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Itävalta
Posts: 18,006
                     
i'm afraid most people will perceive this as a victory for hizbollah. this is normal. they are guerillas and guerillas win wars by surviving and forcing the enemy to quit, not by destroying the enemy. they also appear to have a lot of support in the shiite population in the south and they (the civilians) will see this as their own victory in spite of all the suffering, death and destruction. forget the hippie rhetoric about the civilians being the losers and the military being the winners even if there is some truth in that.

i expected this war to end in this way, though not quite this fast. i'm not sure this is the final chapter, but i hope it is and that people will start working on a long-term solution through diplomacy.
azdaja is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 11:07 AM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,007
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbehunter
The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.
Yep, that sums it up pretty nicely.
Only little amendment to first entry - not only as heroes, but they will get now more financial support from abroad, because they have proved thier competence in war against Israel.
vutt is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
azdaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Itävalta
Posts: 18,006
                     
i don't understand you people.

the idf sure as hell are not winners in this. until now they seemed invincible as even some israeli posters on this board suggested. now everybody was able to see they are not able to win every war they start and they are feared less. getting more money has little significance because their budget was huge anyway.

as for bush, this war clearly did not vindicate his "war on terror". in fact, it was a major setback in this regard. the us support for israeli attack on a defenceless country did not go unnoticed around the world.

it was a very stupid and unnecessary war.
azdaja is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 11:38 AM
Senior Member
 
"Sluggy"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,784
                     
i basically agree with you Volcana, everyone was a loser. I never grasped why Israel reacted so strongly to the kidnapping, never grasped the motive for escalation, etc etc. both sides lost.
"Sluggy" is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,353
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbehunter
The losers - the people of Lebanon and northern Israel, also the civilians in the Israeli government including Ehud Olmert.

The winners:
Hizbullah: proclaimed as heroes in Muslim countries across the Middle East.
Bush & Blair: further vindication of their war on terror.
Israeli Armed forces: they can demand more resources and greater powers - has made Israeli people less secure, and more inclined to vote for those who promise to defend them.
Hezbollah did not win, their infrustructure was damaged. They still have extensive support from Shiites but not from Sunnis, Christians, Druze etc..Now the bombing of Northern Israel which decrease substantially remember Hezbollah also did bombings now and then before Israel atatcked. Also Lebanon will to a certaine xtend have its troops in southern Lebanon. So it was a victory for Israel but only a slight one.
Oh and less than 1000 Lebanese dies in the war. Independant figures say it was around 800. Lebabnese tend to exaggerate numbers like with Qa where it was found that 23 people died and not 58.
Lord Nelson is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,875
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Nelson
Independant figures say it was around 800.
'Independant figures'. That would be the lowest ones you could find, right?

NOTE: According to a pretty good source, The 78-day Kosovo bombing campaign only resulted in 500 civilian deaths, not the 10,000 Shimon Peres seems to believe. The source? The guy who actually did the assessment for Human Rights Watch.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Aug 17th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Senior Member
 
SelesFan70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 11,026
                     
In the wider view, I believe Syria and Iran are the big losers. I think the U.S. signed on the resolution so the next time Hezzbollah strikes Israel (and we all know there will be a next time), we can attack Syria and Iran for re-supplying them.

I can always dream, can't I?

Tammy Bruce RightSideOfTheRainbow

Liberals: Hard on the unborn, soft on terrorists

Man-made climate change is a LIE

COUNTDOWN!
SelesFan70 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome