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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
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Discussion: What is God?

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006

This guy is NOT the pope, or even a spokesman for the pope. On the other hand, he IS a Vatican representative. And the Vatican, to my knowledge, has NOT chosen to rein him in, or issue a 'clraification' of his words. Yet.

Also, the views expressed, by definition, are limited to Catholicism.
Quote:
Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer

IAN JOHNSTON
BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday.

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events.
Brother Consolmagno argued that the Christian God was a supernatural one, a belief that had led the clergy in the past to become involved in science to seek natural reasons for phenomena such as thunder and lightning, which had been previously attributed to vengeful gods. "Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That's why science and religion need to talk to each other," he said.

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

Brother Consolmagno, who was due to give a speech at the Glasgow Science Centre last night, entitled "Why the Pope has an Astronomer", said the idea of papal infallibility had been a "PR disaster". What it actually meant was that, on matters of faith, followers should accept "somebody has got to be the boss, the final authority".

"It's not like he has a magic power, that God whispers the truth in his ear," he said.
To me, this is a great issue. This is a completely different take on 'papal infallibility'. Most devout Catholics,that I've ever discussed the issue with, concede-slash-argue that the doctrine of papal infallibility DOES imply that 'God whispers the truth in his ear'. To have a representative of the Vatican counter that publicly is ....

Maybe the Catholic Church is more hap'n than I thought.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006

This guy is NOT the pope, or even a spokesman for the pope. On the other hand, he IS a Vatican representative. And the Vatican, to my knowledge, has NOT chosen to rein him in, or issue a 'clraification' of his words. Yet.

Also, the views expressed, by definition, are limited to Catholicism.To me, this is a great issue. This is a completely different take on 'papal infallibility'. Most devout Catholics,that I've ever discussed the issue with, concede-slash-argue that the doctrine of papal infallibility DOES imply that 'God whispers the truth in his ear'. To have a representative of the Vatican counter that publicly is ....

Maybe the Catholic Church is more hap'n than I thought.
Naw. They are just using this guy to guage their followers' responses so that they can determine which way to lean on this issue. If they get negative response, then they can disavow any prior knowledge of content and disassociate themselves from this guy. On the other hand, if they get a positive response, then they can always claim him as a voice of reason and true Catholic brother.

It's one of those age old games they constantly play with their flock.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 03:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeVeeDynasty
Naw. They are just using this guy to guage their followers' responses so that they can determine which way to lean on this issue. If they get negative response, then they can disavow any prior knowledge of content and disassociate themselves from this guy. On the other hand, if they get a positive response, then they can always claim him as a voice of reason and true Catholic brother.

It's one of those age old games they constantly play with their flock.
Really? NOt being Catholic, I have no idea. But it's been out there for a long time without rebuttal. And it sure is a controversial position. Papal infallibilty is a touchstone of the faith.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
Really? NOt being Catholic, I have no idea. But it's been out there for a long time without rebuttal. And it sure is a controversial position. Papal infallibilty is a touchstone of the faith.
I am not catholic, not even religious, but one thing you have to recognize is the ability of the catholic church to learn from its mistakes.

I am not surprised that a priest have this thoughts, I am sure a majority of catholics, including priests think the same, I am indeed surprised he was able to say it publicly.

that IMO shows that the Church, under the current Pope, does not have that much power, I doubt this would have happened under John Paul II, not because Benedict is less conservative, but because he is less powerful.

I think the Pope, and the Church realize that they are walking on thin ice, with all the scandals about cover up by the Church and they do know that many (the majority) of the Church's laws are ignored.

One thing is to criticize a book/movie and another to silence one of their own, it wouldn't be credible, it would erode the church's credibility even more, I think they believe it's better not to give it too much publicity hoping no many people will know it (I wouldn't if you haven't posted it here).
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 04:41 AM
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 04:42 AM
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God is Courtney Love.


Goddess, rather.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 04:49 AM
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[God] Religion is the opium of the masses.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athenaeum
[God] Religion is the opium of the masses.
Vlad is that you?
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon
Vlad is that you?
In disguise, ja.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2006, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athenaeum
In disguise, ja.

Ah, one of my heroes
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