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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2006, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Do Africans in America have a right to a piece of the United States as their own ...

.. country?

Of the term '40 acres and a mule' doesn't mean anything to you, you really aren't qualified to comment, so this thread will likely, and deservedly, die without a trace.

What I'm really getting at is, what give ANY people a RIGHT to a nation-state?

That's a bit of an arcane concept, but it's actually pretty central to the state of the world today.

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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2006, 11:56 PM
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That is so absurd. That's taking away from all the rest of the people who pioneered in America as well. Giving land to start the slaves off right does not mean the same thing as giving them their own country.

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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TF Chipmunk
That is so absurd. That's taking away from all the rest of the people who pioneered in America as well. Giving land to start the slaves off right does not mean the same thing as giving them their own country.
Actually, if memory serves, I believe this was attempted in many regions of the U.S. Unfortunately, however, these areas [in the form of townships, donated lands, and communities] didn't last very long, due to vigilante white protestors opposed to what they viewed as an 'insurgency' or the desegregation of their county or, state. John A Roark is far more knowledgeable than I am, in reference to American history. I'll PM him about this..

Incidentally, you won't find much on these townships and the like, because the state and federal level considered it best to keep suck matters quiet. I only know of them because of elder relatives.

But in direct answer to Volcana's question. I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't work. There are still far too many racist elements in the U.S. And the American leadership itself would be opposed to the move, since they'd view it as a major form of 'reparation'; which we all know the U.S. government, and majority population is fervently opposed to.

On the other hand, if we were to agree to turn these areas into massive gambling resorts, that would probably sweeten the deal for a good many Senators and House members.

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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
.. country?

Of the term '40 acres and a mule' doesn't mean anything to you, you really aren't qualified to comment, so this thread will likely, and deservedly, die without a trace.

What I'm really getting at is, what give ANY people a RIGHT to a nation-state?

That's a bit of an arcane concept, but it's actually pretty central to the state of the world today.
Are we talking legal or moral rights?

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeVeeDynasty
Are we talking legal or moral rights?
Well, both are subjective. However, I'm leaning toward 'legal'. All former slaves, by order of Presdient Lincoln (if I'm not mistaken) were to receive, 40 acres of land, and a mule. These were the original reparations for slavery. But most didn't get it. It's a well establiched legal fact that descendants can sue for what they would have inherited. the children of Holocaust survivors recover various possessions of their parents and grand-parents on the same legal principal.

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
Well, both are subjective. However, I'm leaning toward 'legal'. All former slaves, by order of Presdient Lincoln (if I'm not mistaken) were to receive, 40 acres of land, and a mule. These were the original reparations for slavery. But most didn't get it. It's a well establiched legal fact that descendants can sue for what they would have inherited. the children of Holocaust survivors recover various possessions of their parents and grand-parents on the same legal principal.
But again, this is very different from having their own country.

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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeVeeDynasty
Are we talking legal or moral rights?
Moral = Maybe

Legal = No

Reality = You know damn well our 40 acres would be in the middle of a damn desert or above the tree line in some mountain range...

...and some people would sell their shit off for new Jordans immediately.

And by the way, if you read stuff like Zinn's "People's History of the USA", lots of the old robber barons used to buy off poor people's "land grants/vouchers" cheap back in the day so I'm fairly confident that we would have ended up Swindled/Jim Crowed/Rosewooded out of the land and mule if we did get them.

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Last edited by kiwifan; Apr 17th, 2006 at 01:32 AM.
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:22 AM
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That's a really tough question....I know here in Australia we have MABO and such as indigenous Australians fight for "Sacred Land", at the moment we have a group camping in King's Domain (pretty much central Melbourne). When settlement hit Melbourne, the local group were bought out with tea, flour and sugar. They are trying to give it back and take back their land. I guess the question is who long it too long? I fence sit with land battles here because I can see both sides of the story. So I guess in hind-sight...I'm not sure...excellent question though

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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:27 AM
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:35 AM
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Native Americans here have sovernity, don't they? I know in California, certain tribes are allowed to run and profit from casinos without paying anything to the government.
Why don't they do the same for African Americans?
Anyway thanks for asking such a deep question on this beautiful Easter Sunday

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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:41 AM
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Why bring this up African Americans are never going to get any reparations! Lincoln never intended to give blacks the 40 acres and mule, the man actually wanted to send freed slaves back to Africa after being in the United States for several generations.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 01:43 AM
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I feel bad for the plight of Native Americans, I wish they were represented more in American society because they deserve that utmost respect!
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 02:26 AM
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"what give ANY people a RIGHT to a nation-state?"
Good question.

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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokenword73
Native Americans here have sovernity, don't they? I know in California, certain tribes are allowed to run and profit from casinos without paying anything to the government.
Why don't they do the same for African Americans?
Anyway thanks for asking such a deep question on this beautiful Easter Sunday
Pseudo-sovereignty. They function as small nations, but the United States is obviously in control. It goes against the notion of "sovereignty" that there can be a greater power.

As for the black Americans having the same, I really don't think they want that. It's not as if it's worked out that well for most American Indians.
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 2006, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winone23
I feel bad for the plight of Native Americans, I wish they were represented more in American society because they deserve that utmost respect!
Some of them, but I've met a few that don't.
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