Serbia and Montenegro Referendum on 21st May -- what do YOU think? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Serbia and Montenegro Referendum on 21st May -- what do YOU think?

Hi everyone,

Maybe I am tempting danger by creating this thread, but I'm quite curious about this so I decided to risk it!

I was just reading this article http://www.oikotimes.com/site/index.php?id=4324 online about the non-participation of SCG in this year's Eurovision and the reasons behind it. This whole thing with Eurovision probably seems quite petty to people viewing it objectively, but in this country, it has actually upset alot of people and has become very demonstrative of the attitudes and feelings which exist within the republic. As everyone probably knows, there will be a referendum held on the 21st May to decide the future of Serbia-Montenegro and whether the countries will split or the union will continue. At the moment it seems that many Montenegrins are very anxious to have independance from Serbia and since this whole Eurovision thing many Serbs are also feeling a bit "anti-Montenegro". So, I was just wondering what people here think about the situation, especially "ex-Yugo" people. Do you think there is a right and a wrong side? Do you think the union is invalid, or do you think everyone is as much to blame as each other and that it's ridiculous that Serbs and Montenegrins can't live alongside each other happily?

And pleeeease guys, let's keep this peaceful!

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post #2 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 04:47 PM
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i惴 german and most likely i have not enough background knowledge about it
but when the union cause so many problems - even in such a nonsense theme like ESC
hen they should split in peace before we see a new war.
thats just my opinion and like i said i have most likely not enough background knowledge about the whole issue

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post #3 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthias
i惴 german and most likely i have not enough background knowledge about it
but when the union cause so many problems - even in such a nonsense theme like ESC
hen they should split in peace before we see a new war.
thats just my opinion and like i said i have most likely not enough background knowledge about the whole issue
the problem is, previous wars in the former yugoslavia were fought because some people wanted to split from the rest of the country, while huge parts of their own population did not (and this was based almost entirely on their ethnicity). essentially, it's not that only the federal states in the former yugoslavia were bitterly divided on the question of independence, but also the populations of each federal state. ignoring this was not a good idea 15 years ago. but then perhaps people did learn something from their mistakes in the past and really feel that this is the way to go. i don't know enough about the present situation to be able to tell.
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post #4 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 06:48 PM
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it's only referendum in Montenegro. Serbia will accept any result from it! I want Serbia as a separated state from Montenegro, but i'm affraid Montenegrins will decide to stay in state Union with Serbia. But that mean that criminal dictatorship Djukanovic-Vujanovic will fall apart, and that's good. Djukanovic-ex president now prime minister is facing mafia trial in Italy-because of that he wants independent Montenegor so he could be president again in 2 terms, or maybe to life! Both solutions have their advantages

NO


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post #5 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Obviously as a Serb, and a Serb from Belgrade with Sarajevian roots I'm not really in a position where I can say what would be right for Montenegro and what they should want or do. But I can honestly say that I don't want to keep Montenegro part of the Republic because of any interest in a Greater Serbia, nor do I think we have the "right" to govern over them. But it seems ridiculous that we can't live alongside each other, like they do in the UK for example... Scottish people think of themselves as a seperate country and they had devolution and everything, and they are not having all this mess about being independent! I really don't understand how independence would be beneficial to Montenegro... a country of less than 1 million people, which already enjoys a great deal of autonomy. This Eurovision thing for a start shows that their rights are not being neglected in the union! It's not as if independence would benefit them as far as I can see. As for Serbia, that's another big question...

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post #6 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duleml
it's only referendum in Montenegro. Serbia will accept any result from it! I want Serbia as a separated state from Montenegro, but i'm affraid Montenegrins will decide to stay in state Union with Serbia. But that mean that criminal dictatorship Djukanovic-Vujanovic will fall apart, and that's good. Djukanovic-ex president now prime minister is facing mafia trial in Italy-because of that he wants independent Montenegor so he could be president again in 2 terms, or maybe to life! Both solutions have their advantages
I think Serbia can do fine with Montenegro so for us it can be okay for sure... I just hope the outcome doesn;t affect our World Cup team anyway, cos those guys worked so hard and did SO great to get there, imagine if they weren't allowed to participate cos the country didn't exist any more! (although I think it'd be a bit late in the day for that, but we remember 1992)

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post #7 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 07:06 PM
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"Brazil" ESC entry in 1991 ment the end of ex Yugoslavia- everyone were mad about its selection it finished second last with only 1 point! Last year Montenegro jury made an unfair voting giving all the points to their top song, and giving NO POINTS to two top Serbian songs- one of them was heavenly song with great voice. Serbian jury gave points to Montenegrin winning song. Song finished 7th in ESC finals in Kyiv! This year Montenegrin jury did the same thing-giving NO POINTS to great songs : probably best "Crazy summer dance" from Flamingosi and Romale, Romale! That resulted that the same Montenegrin group won twice in a row at national finals and would go to ESC for two years in a row with pretty much the same boring song as year before! Serbian television director opposed to it, and said he will not respect tribal relations that made montenegrin jury vote in unprofessional way. Song "Crazy summer dance" won 8000 SMS votes more then the winning song, but that didn't help in final score either! Funny thing is that Brazil had lyrics counting countries : Brazil, Spain, Colombia, Cuba and America all do samba, rumba,cha-cha cha. And "crazy summer dance" "Paris, London, Lisabon, Kyiv, Moscow, Prague and Rome, Copenhagen, Budapest -crazy summer dance...

Both songs are up-tempo, great fun, and great coreography...but the last one will not go to Athens after all...

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post #8 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by **Jelica**
But it seems ridiculous that we can't live alongside each other, like they do in the UK for example... Scottish people think of themselves as a seperate country and they had devolution and everything, and they are not having all this mess about being independent!
I think there was actually rather a big mess, lasting hundreds of years, before the current situation emerged. 400 years later, the mess has settled down a bit. There's always mess in these types of affairs.
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post #9 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 07:44 PM
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Let the people decide. Before the creation of Yugoslavia in 1918 (I think) Serbia and Montenegro were separate independant kingdoms. They had no choice back then and if now the Montenegrins decide to go their own way, then fair enough. We'll be back to where we were 100 years ago - minus the Kings, unless they decide to restore their monarchies - but in the C21st, even if there are two states, they'll retain close economic ties and quite possibly political ones if they both end up in the European Union. By the by - is it true that there's some support for the restoration of a constitutional monarchy in Serbia under Crown Prince Alexander?

So far, there has been no bloodshed between the Serbs and the Montenegrins and whatever happens in the referendum, I hope that will continue to be the case. The outcome of the talks on the final status of Kosovo is far more worrying to me.....

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post #10 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
By the by - is it true that there's some support for the restoration of a constitutional monarchy in Serbia under Crown Prince Alexander?
That idea has very little support. And I am extremely against it - that guy cannot even speak Serbian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
So far, there has been no bloodshed between the Serbs and the Montenegrins and whatever happens in the referendum, I hope that will continue to be the case.
Serbia will definitely not intervene and in fact I believe that the majority of Serbs (myself included) are for separate countries. The internal situation in Montenegro is the problem as roughly 50% of the population are for and 50% are against the independence. So no matter what happens, one half of the country will be extremely pissed off.

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Originally Posted by Andy T
The outcome of the talks on the final status of Kosovo is far more worrying to me.....
There's only one solution and everybody knows it: independent Kosovo. The sooner people accept it, the better it will be for everyone.
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post #11 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by **Jelica**
Scottish people think of themselves as a seperate country and they had devolution and everything, and they are not having all this mess about being independent!
There has been mess for eons and eons, and it's only been OK in the last century or so.

However, everyone is getting pissed off with the current devolution arrangements. There is going to be a fuss kicked up in the near future because the Scottish administration is widely seen as incompetent. The main opposition, and most likely heirs to power, are....separatists!

I don't know a great deal about the Montenegran situation though...

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post #12 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2006, 10:08 PM
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Top ten reasons for being Montenegrin:
1. You can be proud of your heroic past and not being conquered by the Turks for 500 years.
2. You can sing epic songs about your heroic past and not being conquered by the Turks for 500 years.
3. You can think of Russia as your Mother, although Russia does not know you are her son.
4. You can combine orthodoxy with Stalinism with love of Russia and still think that you are better and more progressive than the Serbs.
5. Goat cheese, grilled lamb, and grappa.
6. You get to kill at least one person in a vendetta and defend your honor.
7. If you are a woman you can kill your husband and everyone knows why you did it.
8. You can smuggle cigarettes to Italy and live like a king.
9. You don't have to work even when you have to.
10.You don't have to work....
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post #13 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2006, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joana
That idea has very little support. And I am extremely against it - that guy cannot even speak Serbian.



Serbia will definitely not intervene and in fact I believe that the majority of Serbs (myself included) are for separate countries. The internal situation in Montenegro is the problem as roughly 50% of the population are for and 50% are against the independence. So no matter what happens, one half of the country will be extremely pissed off.



There's only one solution and everybody knows it: independent Kosovo. The sooner people accept it, the better it will be for everyone.
Thanks Joana for this reply. I guess the report I read (can't remember where) about Alexander was totally unrepresentative!

More questions:

How much of that 50% against independence is made up of the large Serbian minority in Montenegro?

Are the Kosovars ethnic Albanians or muslim Serbs/Slavs? Is there support in Kosovo for unification with Albania? I find it hard to see how Kosovo could be a viable independent state....

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post #14 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2006, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Thanks Joana for this reply. I guess the report I read (can't remember where) about Alexander was totally unrepresentative!

More questions:

How much of that 50% against independence is made up of the large Serbian minority in Montenegro?

Are the Kosovars ethnic Albanians or muslim Serbs/Slavs? Is there support in Kosovo for unification with Albania? I find it hard to see how Kosovo could be a viable independent state....
The kosovars are ethnic Albanians and are then not slavs. I doubt that the majority of them want to unify with Albania because they speak a different dialect with those from Tirana. The majority of them are Muslim just like in Albania where around 70% of the population are so. But there are prominent minorites include Mother Theresa an ethnic Albanian from Macedonia who was of course Roman Catholic and so was Skendenberg one of Albania's national heros.

Muslim Slavs do exist such as the Muslims from Bosnia who are called Bosniaks by int. community. The footballer Ibrahimovic is one though his Mum is Croat. The tennis player Ivan Lujbujic is originally from Bosnia but his parents are ethnic Croats.

There is no such thing as a Serb minority in Montenegro. Montenegrins (or Monte Negros) are really Serbs but the region was made as such by Tito because it used to be independant once upon a time as a monarchy. The Serb Radvan Karadzic was born in Montenegro and Milosevic's ancestors were born there too. His daughter now considers herself as an inhabitant of Montenegro.
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post #15 of 175 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2006, 12:46 PM
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Would it not be economic suicide for Montenegro to split?
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