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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Man On Trial For Death For Converting To Christianity

Western nations outraged Muslims who convert can be put to death

Wednesday, March 22, 2006; Posted: 8:04 a.m. EST (13:04 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In the days of the Taliban, those promoting Christianity in Afghanistan could be arrested and those converting from Islam could be tortured and publicly executed.

That was supposed to change after U.S.-led forces ousted the oppressive, fundamentalist regime, but the case of 41-year-old Abdul Rahman has many Western nations wondering if Afghanistan is regressing.

Rahman, a father of two, was arrested and is on trial for rejecting Islam. The Afghan constitution, which is based on Sharia, or Islamic law, says that apostates can receive the death penalty.

"They want to sentence me to death, and I accept it," Rahman told reporters last week, "but I am not a deserter and not an infidel." (Watch how this case is testing Afghanistan -- 1:17)

He had been arrested after telling local police, whom he approached on an unrelated matter, that he had converted to Christianity. Reports say he was carrying a Bible at the time.

He said he converted to Christianity 16 years ago after working with a Christian aid group that assisted refugees in neighboring Pakistan.

Mentally unfit?
On Wednesday a state prosecutor said Rahman may be mentally unfit to stand trial, The Associated Press reports.

"We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," The AP quoted prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari as saying.

Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination, according to the AP.

"Doctors must examine him," the AP quoted Baluch as saying. "If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped."

When the examination or the trial would take place was not clear. The AP said authorities barred it from seeing Rahman and reported that he was believed to not have a lawyer.

A Western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case because of the reaction it has caused, the AP reports. The news agency said both spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Afghanistan's population is 80 percent Sunni Muslim and 19 percent Shiite Muslim, according to the CIA. The rest of the population is classified as "other."

U.S. objects to trial
Rahman's case raises thorny issues between Afghanistan and its Western allies, and U.S. officials this week made certain that Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah, who is in Washington for talks on the U.S.-Afghan strategic partnership, understood their qualms.

"We have underscored also to Foreign Minister Abdullah that we believe that tolerance and freedom of worship are important elements of any democracy," U.S. State Department spokesman Scott McCormack told reporters Tuesday. "We urge the Afghan government to conduct any legal proceedings in a transparent and fair manner."

Abdullah was supposed to talk to reporters Tuesday about talks for the strategic partnership. Instead, Abdullah was bombarded with questions about the Rahman case.

"I know that it is a very sensitive issue and we know the concerns of the American people," Abdullah said, adding that the Afghan Embassy in Washington had received "hundreds of messages" on the issue.

He further said that the Afghan government had nothing to do with the case.

"But I hope that through our constitutional process, there will be a satisfactory result," he said.

Constitution ambiguous
Rahman's case illustrates a split over the interpretation of the Afghan constitution, which calls for religious freedom while stating that Muslims who reject Islam can be executed.

Nicholas Burns, undersecretary for political affairs, said he understands the complexities of the case and promised the United States would respect Afghan sovereignty. However, he said, Afghans should be free to choose their own religion, and he believes the nation's constitution supports that.

"We hope the Afghan constitution is going to be upheld," Burns said. "If he has the right of freedom of religion, that ought to be respected."

Rahman's case could force Afghan President Hamid Karzai into the undesirable position of mediating the matter. Karzai has to placate an ever-restless populace in turbulent post-war Afghanistan, but at the same time, he needs Western assistance to stave off the remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Allies indignant
The U.S. has 23,000 troops in the country; Germany has 2,700. Canada has 2,300 stationed there, and Italy has 1,775, according to Reuters.

All four nations have expressed displeasure over the situation, some even saying that it is intolerable that soldiers of all faiths die to protect a country threatening to kill its own for converting to Christianity.

Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga wrote a letter to Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, urging him to withdraw Italian troops from Afghanistan unless Kabul guarantees Rahman's safety, Reuters reported.

"It is not acceptable that our soldiers should put themselves at risk or even sacrifice their lives for a fundamentalist, illiberal regime," Cossiga wrote.

Rep. Tom Lantos, the ranking Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, wrote a letter to Karzai asking him to intervene and uphold "core democratic principles and fundamental human rights."

"In a country where soldiers from all faiths, including Christianity, are dying in defense of your government, I find it outrageous that Mr. Rahman is being prosecuted and facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity," Lantos wrote.

One German official promised to intervene if necessary. Another, Development Minister Heide Wieczorek-Zeul, said, "We will do everything possible to save the life of Abdul Rahman," according to Reuters.

Canada echoed that sentiment, saying human rights in Afghanistan was a top priority and that "Canada will continue to encourage the Afghan government to adhere to its human rights obligations," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Pamela Greenwell told Reuters.

CNN's Elise Labott contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...ian/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188728,00.html

Convert mentally ill? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11955289/

So much for the "religion of peace and tolerance" and the "new Afghanistan"

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesFan70
So much for the "religion of peace and tolerance" and the "new Afghanistan"
You mean the new (opium superpower, BTW) Afghanistan that we "liberated" under the enighted leadership of Kabul's Mayor new "President" Hamid Karzei?
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 05:25 PM
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martyrs are such an inspiration!
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesFan70
So much for the "religion of peace and tolerance" and the "new Afghanistan"
your president created this "new afghanistan". and come to think of it one of your former presidents helped create the former afghan regime as well (unwittingly or not).
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 07:14 PM
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your president created this "new afghanistan". and come to think of it one of your former presidents helped create the former afghan regime as well (unwittingly or not).
What about ther Soviets then, they were innocent, huh? Yeah Carter and Reagan supported the Mujahedin but so did Pakistan and many other arab nations. In any case I prefer Afghanistan today then under the Taliban. The Judicial branch is separated from the executive one like in the West but The government is still tring to ensure that the chap will be declared insane so he wll be freed. That is better than nothing I guess. I respect the Christian convert for what he did but cannot fail to say that he was nuts to let people there know what he did. Now his daugthers will be snatched from him and he may never see them again. By now all 3 and maybe his wife would be back in Germany where they wuld have had their new life.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 07:35 PM
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What about ther Soviets then, they were innocent, huh? Yeah Carter and Reagan supported the Mujahedin but so did Pakistan and many other arab nations.
russians did screw things up in afghanistan, but they did not support the fundamentalists. as for pakistan and others, i think it's obvious they can be bullied into acting against fundamentalists if their masters allies in washington want them to.

each way, destroying several nations, strengthening the most reactionary forces there and then blaming it all simply on islam is lame. it will take decades for afghanistan to recover from being a pawn in the game between big powers.

Last edited by azdaja; Mar 22nd, 2006 at 10:54 PM.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 10:45 PM
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It just shows what the USA can do when it puts its mind to it.

Step1/ Take one radical Islamic nation
Step2/ Carpet-bomb said nation
Step3/ Install government of your choice
Step4/ Sit back and watch as said nation remains a radical Islamic one
Step5/ Well.....nothing.....at least the guys "in charge" are your puppets now....who cares how they run the place as long as they are your allies?

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 10:51 PM
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wow, our little experiment in Afghanistan seems to have turned out well

Hopefully he can be saved, but these countries are crazy when it comes to religion.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 01:54 AM
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There's so much hypocrisy in Islam They gladly embrace people who desert other religions to join them while killing those who decide to leave
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 03:00 AM
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Since when "freedom of religion" is a crime?

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SelesFan70
Western nations outraged Muslims who convert can be put to death

Wednesday, March 22, 2006; Posted: 8:04 a.m. EST (13:04 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In the days of the Taliban, those promoting Christianity in Afghanistan could be arrested and those converting from Islam could be tortured and publicly executed.

That was supposed to change after U.S.-led forces ousted the oppressive, fundamentalist regime, but the case of 41-year-old Abdul Rahman has many Western nations wondering if Afghanistan is regressing.

Rahman, a father of two, was arrested and is on trial for rejecting Islam. The Afghan constitution, which is based on Sharia, or Islamic law, says that apostates can receive the death penalty.

"They want to sentence me to death, and I accept it," Rahman told reporters last week, "but I am not a deserter and not an infidel." (Watch how this case is testing Afghanistan -- 1:17)

He had been arrested after telling local police, whom he approached on an unrelated matter, that he had converted to Christianity. Reports say he was carrying a Bible at the time.

He said he converted to Christianity 16 years ago after working with a Christian aid group that assisted refugees in neighboring Pakistan.

Mentally unfit?
On Wednesday a state prosecutor said Rahman may be mentally unfit to stand trial, The Associated Press reports.

"We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," The AP quoted prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari as saying.

Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination, according to the AP.

"Doctors must examine him," the AP quoted Baluch as saying. "If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped."

When the examination or the trial would take place was not clear. The AP said authorities barred it from seeing Rahman and reported that he was believed to not have a lawyer.

A Western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case because of the reaction it has caused, the AP reports. The news agency said both spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Afghanistan's population is 80 percent Sunni Muslim and 19 percent Shiite Muslim, according to the CIA. The rest of the population is classified as "other."

U.S. objects to trial
Rahman's case raises thorny issues between Afghanistan and its Western allies, and U.S. officials this week made certain that Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah, who is in Washington for talks on the U.S.-Afghan strategic partnership, understood their qualms.

"We have underscored also to Foreign Minister Abdullah that we believe that tolerance and freedom of worship are important elements of any democracy," U.S. State Department spokesman Scott McCormack told reporters Tuesday. "We urge the Afghan government to conduct any legal proceedings in a transparent and fair manner."

Abdullah was supposed to talk to reporters Tuesday about talks for the strategic partnership. Instead, Abdullah was bombarded with questions about the Rahman case.

"I know that it is a very sensitive issue and we know the concerns of the American people," Abdullah said, adding that the Afghan Embassy in Washington had received "hundreds of messages" on the issue.

He further said that the Afghan government had nothing to do with the case.

"But I hope that through our constitutional process, there will be a satisfactory result," he said.

Constitution ambiguous
Rahman's case illustrates a split over the interpretation of the Afghan constitution, which calls for religious freedom while stating that Muslims who reject Islam can be executed.

Nicholas Burns, undersecretary for political affairs, said he understands the complexities of the case and promised the United States would respect Afghan sovereignty. However, he said, Afghans should be free to choose their own religion, and he believes the nation's constitution supports that.

"We hope the Afghan constitution is going to be upheld," Burns said. "If he has the right of freedom of religion, that ought to be respected."

Rahman's case could force Afghan President Hamid Karzai into the undesirable position of mediating the matter. Karzai has to placate an ever-restless populace in turbulent post-war Afghanistan, but at the same time, he needs Western assistance to stave off the remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Allies indignant
The U.S. has 23,000 troops in the country; Germany has 2,700. Canada has 2,300 stationed there, and Italy has 1,775, according to Reuters.

All four nations have expressed displeasure over the situation, some even saying that it is intolerable that soldiers of all faiths die to protect a country threatening to kill its own for converting to Christianity.

Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga wrote a letter to Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, urging him to withdraw Italian troops from Afghanistan unless Kabul guarantees Rahman's safety, Reuters reported.

"It is not acceptable that our soldiers should put themselves at risk or even sacrifice their lives for a fundamentalist, illiberal regime," Cossiga wrote.

Rep. Tom Lantos, the ranking Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, wrote a letter to Karzai asking him to intervene and uphold "core democratic principles and fundamental human rights."

"In a country where soldiers from all faiths, including Christianity, are dying in defense of your government, I find it outrageous that Mr. Rahman is being prosecuted and facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity," Lantos wrote.

One German official promised to intervene if necessary. Another, Development Minister Heide Wieczorek-Zeul, said, "We will do everything possible to save the life of Abdul Rahman," according to Reuters.

Canada echoed that sentiment, saying human rights in Afghanistan was a top priority and that "Canada will continue to encourage the Afghan government to adhere to its human rights obligations," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Pamela Greenwell told Reuters.

CNN's Elise Labott contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...ian/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188728,00.html

Convert mentally ill? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11955289/

So much for the "religion of peace and tolerance" and the "new Afghanistan"
Well, it was your president who installed that government
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 08:25 AM
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Pathetic. The Western nations really dropped the ball in Afghanistan.

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