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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Arrow Vietnam war

OK, I've just started this at school and I'm been a bit shocked so far.

We've had 2 lessons and I'm pretty horrified currently. According to the textbook, American soldiers killed people when it wasn't going there way, put chemicals into jungles and napalm which sounds terrible and usually affected civilans.

I was most shocked that a lieutanat Calley I think, was sentence to life for 109 murders and released only 3 days after due to Nixon's say so

The Viet Cong killed soldiers with booby traps and ambushes so it doesn't sound terrible but I can't see them being wonderful either.

I suppose I'll learn more, but why did USA try to help a country that didn't want help. The people didn't anyway

Discuss.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude
I suppose I'll learn more, but why did USA try to help a country that didn't want help. The people didn't anyway
dont they always do that?they are our saviors

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude
I suppose I'll learn more, but why did USA try to help a country that didn't want help. The people didn't anyway
who says they wanted to help?

i'd say during the cold war many countries around the world tried to follow an independent path by ballancing between the soviet union and the us. the soviet sphere of influence was rather small, but even there there was at least one country that was able to preserve a meaningful independence and that was yugoslavia. this nearly triggered an invasion by the soviet troops.

in the rest of the world the us was trying to keep countries of the third world in check, at least in regions that had some strategic significance. vietnam was considered a key nation in south east asia and allowing it to gain a meaningful independence would inspire other countries to do the same. that was the most important reason for the war as far as i can tell. communism itself was just an excuse and ideological justification. the us intervened in many other countries of the world in different ways, but for the same reason.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 04:20 PM
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You might like to read this one book about Kim Phuc. It's an interesting story.

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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014...Fencoding=UTF8

Editorial Reviews


From Publishers Weekly
All you have to do is say "the girl in the picture" and any American who was politically aware during the Vietnam War will conjure up the image of a little Vietnamese girl running down the road, her naked body scorched by napalm, her face contorted in pain. That photograph, taken of a girl named Kim Phuc on June 8, 1972, by Nick Ut of the Associated Press, remains a haunting image of the American war in Vietnam. Canadian writer Chong (The Concubine's Children) now tells Phuc's story in this instructive authorized biography. Tracing Phuc's life both before and after she was nearly killed (at age nine) by a South Vietnamese air force napalm strike gone wrong, Chong unblinkingly presents graphic depictions of the horrors that the war visited on innocent civilians. She finds, however, amidst these tragedies, a redemptive story in Phuc's life, which, thankfully, has a happy ending. Through the heroic efforts of Nick Ut, British correspondent Christopher Wain and others, the girl was taken to an excellent hospital in Saigon. Through 17 operations (in 24 months), an international team of doctors saved her life. Later, after communist authorities mercilessly used her for propaganda purposes, she fled Vietnam. Today, she and her husband are Christians, living in Ontario with their two sons. Although Phuc's entire back remains deeply scarred (keeping her in near constant pain), she works as an unpaid goodwill ambassador for UNESCO and runs her own foundation for child victims of war. Chong's biography, though overly detailed at times, is a well-rendered and affecting life story. 8 pages of b&w photos. (Aug.)



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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 04:53 PM
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude
I suppose I'll learn more, but why did USA try to help a country that didn't want help. The people didn't anyway
it was a p r o x y war

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Martian KC
Wait, how old are you devilish?
I'm 16



I'm curious at people's opinions round here. And I'm sure I'll know soon. That 1st post is all I know. Nothing else.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude
OK, I've just started this at school and I'm been a bit shocked so far.

We've had 2 lessons and I'm pretty horrified currently. According to the textbook, American soldiers killed people when it wasn't going there way, put chemicals into jungles and napalm which sounds terrible and usually affected civilans.

I was most shocked that a lieutanat Calley I think, was sentence to life for 109 murders and released only 3 days after due to Nixon's say so

The Viet Cong killed soldiers with booby traps and ambushes so it doesn't sound terrible but I can't see them being wonderful either.

I suppose I'll learn more, but why did USA try to help a country that didn't want help. The people didn't anyway

Discuss.

War always produces war crimes. The Allies (esp. Russians) committed atrocious war crimes in WW2 against Germans and Japanese (who were far worse themselves, BTW). Their cause was just, though.

The Viet Nam war taught a lesson: IF a nation goes to war
1. There has to be a clear goal (defeating the enemy forces and conquer the country).
2. You must be willing to use maximum force.
3. You must have the home front behind you.

The South Vietnamese didn't want to become Communist (The Communists killed millions after their victory, esp. in Cambodia). But they didn't want an endless war either. But how the U.S. betrayed their South Vietnamese ally in 1975 by not sending weapons and providing air support after the North Vietnamese and the Vietcong broke the 1973 armistice is one of the most disgraceful acts in U.S. history.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel_ffighter
dont they always do that?they are our saviors

Without American support Greece would have had the same fate in the late 40ies as Bulgaria .....
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdaja
who says they wanted to help?

i'd say during the cold war many countries around the world tried to follow an independent path by ballancing between the soviet union and the us. the soviet sphere of influence was rather small, but even there there was at least one country that was able to preserve a meaningful independence and that was yugoslavia. this nearly triggered an invasion by the soviet troops.

in the rest of the world the us was trying to keep countries of the third world in check, at least in regions that had some strategic significance. vietnam was considered a key nation in south east asia and allowing it to gain a meaningful independence would inspire other countries to do the same. that was the most important reason for the war as far as i can tell. communism itself was just an excuse and ideological justification. the us intervened in many other countries of the world in different ways, but for the same reason.

Well, after 1975 the South Vietnamese could relish their independence ....
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrfnpump
it was a p r o x y war
while the us indeed used ******* in the vietnam war you can't describe it as a ***** war. the us army fought directly there.

lol, is the word p r o x y censored or what?
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermonica
Well, after 1975 the South Vietnamese could relish their independence ....
the "south vietnamese" could do that indeed. the vietnamese fought the japanese, the french and the americans and finally won independence. no, the regime that took over may not have been nice ever since, but it's theirs.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdaja
the "south vietnamese" could do that indeed. the vietnamese fought the japanese, the french and the americans and finally won independence. no, the regime that took over may not have been nice ever since, but it's theirs.

Well, the Saddam regime was the Iraqi's one.
Your point being?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermonica
Well, the Saddam regime was the Iraqi's one.
Your point being?
good example. both in vietnam and in iraq the invaders were/are obviously not welcome regardless of what the people there thought/think about their own rulers.

national self-determination matters, folks.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2006, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdaja
good example. both in vietnam and in iraq the invaders were/are obviously not welcome regardless of what the people there thought/think about their own rulers.

national self-determination matters, folks.

Independent polls in Iraq show that people prefer today's situation to the Saddam regime.
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