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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 2005, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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most read news story of the day - Pakistani Killed Daughters to Save 'Honor'

Pakistani Killed Daughters to Save 'Honor'

MULTAN, Pakistan - Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" — a crime that shocked Pakistan.

The 40-year old laborer, speaking to The Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to prison, confessed to just one regret — that he didn't murder the stepsister's alleged lover too.

Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by male relatives each year in this conservative Islamic nation, and rights groups said Wednesday such "honor killings" will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.

The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more than half of such cases that make it to court, most end with cash settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum death by hanging.

Ahmed's killing spree — witnessed by his wife Rehmat Bibi as she cradled their 3 month-old baby son — happened Friday night at their home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab province.

It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005.

Bibi recounted how she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and cut her throat with a machete. Bibi looked helplessly on from the corner of the room as he then killed the three girls — Bano, 8, Sumaira, 7, and Humaira, 4 — pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.

"I was shivering with fear. I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, told AP by phone from the village. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters but he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you.'"

"The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me," she said.

The next morning, Ahmed was arrested.

Speaking to AP in the back of police pickup truck late Tuesday as he was shifted to a prison in the city of Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition. Appearing disheveled but composed, he said he killed Muqadas because she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn't want them to do the same when they grew up.

He said he bought a butcher's knife and a machete after midday prayers on Friday and hid them in the house where he carried out the killings.

"I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect but our honor."

Despite Ahmed's contention that Muqadas had committed adultery — a claim made by her husband — the rights commission reported that according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory.

Police have said they do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged lover.

Muqadas was Bibi's daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed's brother, who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother's widow, as is customary under Islamic tradition.

"Women are treated as property and those committing crimes against them do not get punished," said the rights commission's director, Kamla Hyat. "The steps taken by our government have made no real difference."

Activists accuse President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a self-styled moderate Muslim, of reluctance to reform outdated Islamized laws that make it difficult to secure convictions in rape, acid attacks and other cases of violence against women. They say police are often reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes as family disputes.

Statistics on honor killings are confused and imprecise, but figures from the rights commission's Web site and its officials show a marked reduction in cases this year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable figures.

Ijaz Elahi, the ministry's joint secretary, said the violence was decreasing and that increasing numbers of victims were reporting incidents to police or the media. Laws, including one passed last year to beef up penalties for honor killings, had been toughened, she said.

Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into Ahmed's case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death sentence if he is convicted for the killings and terrorizing his neighborhood.

Ahmed, who did not resist arrest, was unrepentant.

"I told the police that I am an honorable father and I slaughtered my dishonored daughter and the three other girls," he said. "I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire."

=======================

I have heard stories like this for a long time... your thoughts? Particularly interested in thoughts from those from countries where these acts occur.....
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 2005, 10:10 PM
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So what do you say to something like this? I am sure that every right-thinking Moslem would denounce this immediately. There is surely no way to defend such a thing, is there?
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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So what do you say to something like this? I am sure that every right-thinking Moslem would denounce this immediately. There is surely no way to defend such a thing, is there?
I'd like to know; I mean it seems to continue over the years.

"It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005".

There are also "honor" rapes, and "honor" mutilations such as burning the face with acid.

I guess the types of people/cultures where these acts are prevalent would not be in a community like this. But we do have a broad spectrum of nationalities represented, and some are a lot closer than I am... so I wonder what type of feedback there might be.

Last edited by drake3781; Dec 29th, 2005 at 02:31 AM.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 10:35 AM
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 11:00 AM
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This happens all the time. Don't you love those traditional cultures? So warm and cuddly.

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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 11:04 AM
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So what do you say to something like this? I am sure that every right-thinking Moslem would denounce this immediately. There is surely no way to defend such a thing, is there?
Thank you so much for having faith in us, John.

We definitely denounce and condemn such primitive, evil so-called cultures, traditions.

Precious and fragile things
Need special handling...

I pray you learn to trust
Have faith in both of us
And keep room in your hearts for two

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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 11:10 AM
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Disgusting & despicable.

Where the hell is the 'honor' in butchering your supposedly adulterous daughter then pre-emptively slaughtering your other daughters just to be on the safe side.

...or maybe I just don't understand their culture?

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 12:16 PM
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Horror news
agreed

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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by K.U.C.W-R.V
Disgusting & despicable.

Where the hell is the 'honor' in butchering your supposedly adulterous daughter then pre-emptively slaughtering your other daughters just to be on the safe side.

...or maybe I just don't understand their culture?
Why would you want to understand something like that?

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 12:51 PM
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Why would you want to understand something like that?
Don't worry I don't. That was an attempt at sarcasm.

Some people seem to think Westerners have no right to comment on other cultures - I disagree.

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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 01:27 PM
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Don't worry I don't. That was an attempt at sarcasm.

Some people seem to think Westerners have no right to comment on other cultures - I disagree.

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 03:06 PM
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This happens all the time. Don't you love those traditional cultures? So warm and cuddly.
I would like to know what those who said terrorists are in response by abuses suffered by muslim people have to say now.

This is the classical example, crimes like this not only go unpunished, or with little punishment, but also are encouraged.

Do you wonder what breed terrorists? here it's your answer, this line of thinking (calling it thinking is a poetic license), these "cultural" values.

If a man values more his honour than the lives of his own daughters, if he is capable of killing them in cold blood to save his "name", what can you expect? compared to this blowing yourself up to defend your religions seems like a minor thing.

Some would say that it's sinking to their level, but I think there is only one way that Pakistan and other conservative muslim nations can stop (or at least limit) this, and it's by getting really, really tough.

This man thinks he'll go to paradise, fine, let him go when his time comes, but since he is going to heaven, make the rest of his life here hell, really hell, keep him in a 2x2 cell for the rest of his life, make sure he doesn't kill himself or he doesn't see the sun light again, and make sure that everyone in the country knows that, maybe the next one that wants to protect his honour will think it twice when the cost will be living a nightmare for the next 30 years.

And yes, I don't believe in rehabilitation, I believe in hard, really tough punishment.
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ♥Sevenseas
Thank you so much for having faith in us, John.

We definitely denounce and condemn such primitive, evil so-called cultures, traditions.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sevenseas again.
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 03:09 PM
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And yes, I don't believe in rehabilitation, I believe in hard, really tough punishment.
Don't ever make a mistake, then, nor upset a privileged class of protected citizens... and for heaven's sake, don't let drugs ever get a foothold for any reason, your fault or not...
Other things could be said here, but I'll let them slide.
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 2005, 03:09 PM
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Thank you so much for having faith in us, John.

We definitely denounce and condemn such primitive, evil so-called cultures, traditions.
Turkey is a model for other muslim countries, but unfortunately, not all of them have a Kemal (was that his name?) to carry on reforms.

He didn't do it with a soft hand btw, but Turkish today are enjoying the benefits of his reforms.
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