Do you think Saddam Hissein is receiving a fair trial? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Do you think Saddam Hissein is receiving a fair trial?

I'm about to write a political feature article for a news-site and it will be on Husseins trial.
I just wanted to see what do you guys think of this trial he is receiving is it fair or not?

I was surprised to read that the UN Human Rights Watch were actually defending Saddam and I got this impression that the UN assumes Hussein is the victim or something.

I mean has the world gone mad - this man delivered a brutal brand of justice to Iraqis during his 24-year reign, he should be glad he's getting any day in court and didn't wind up like his two sons when cornered, dead on a mortuary slab.

He carried out a massive massacre at Dujail - killing so many innocent ppl - and the fact that these bodies were actually found - i have no doubt that he and his men did it. Besides the witness testemonies are extremly powerfull.

So anyway what do you guys think of all this - your opinions will really be usefull.

btw, another small thing that really annoys me abput Saddam and this trial is the fact that he is being so rude to the judges.
I know this is kinda of topic but the way he ALWAYS complains about smething - like about having to walk up the stairs in chains because the elevator was broken, the way he prays in court when he's acting moody, the way he calls the judge names and points his finger in the air in a threatening
motion - and then you have these Judges that are like totally appeasing his wishes - I think he is receiving more then a fair trial.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 01:08 AM
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Its Hussain.

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by marmite1
Its Hussain.
typo - not heee

r u being a smart arse or just plain ignorent.
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 01:19 AM
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You ask whether he's receiving a fair trial and then proceed to argue that he is based on what a bastard he is. Sorry, but that's irrelevant. You might want to argue that there are good political reasons not to give him a fair trial by Western standards, but that is different from arguing that he actually is being given a fair trial by those standards.

From the articles I've read, he is almost certainly not getting a fair trial by the standards used in, say, Australian or British courts.

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 03:29 AM Thread Starter
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You ask whether he's receiving a fair trial and then proceed to argue that he is based on what a bastard he is. Sorry, but that's irrelevant. You might want to argue that there are good political reasons not to give him a fair trial by Western standards, but that is different from arguing that he actually is being given a fair trial by those standards.

From the articles I've read, he is almost certainly not getting a fair trial by the standards used in, say, Australian or British courts.
The facts proving him a "bastard" are overwhelming - what I dont understand is the double standard by the UN - first they spend years hunting him down - trying to bring him to juctice for the grusome crimes he carried out - and now that they have him, they're trying to defend him - i dont get it.

I dont think it really matters under what laws he is been prosecuted under - I think he should be VERY glad that it is his own constitution judging him - if he was in Hague or somewhere in Washington he would be hanged by now - dont you think? I mean I struggle to find one world leader that doesnt want Hussein to be sentenced to death or life in prison. He should be glad that the Iraqi judges are so soft on him - because his courtroom behaviour is totally unneceptable even by Iraqi standards.
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 04:39 AM
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^But your question was about whether he is getting a fair trial. There's no "double standard" in using resources to hunt down a vicious criminal while also ensuring that his trial follows scrupulous standards of fairness. That's exactly how our justice systems are supposed to work in Western nations. The only double standard is when we say that we will have lesser standards of procedure, evidence, and burden of proof for Saddam than we would apply to a local serial killer or brutal rapist (say).

I'm not being political about this, just trying to explain the concepts. I don't even mean to sound patronising about it. Maybe some of the other lawyers here can explain it better than I'm managing to do.

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 06:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ~ The Leopard ~
^But your question was about whether he is getting a fair trial. There's no "double standard" in using resources to hunt down a vicious criminal while also ensuring that his trial follows scrupulous standards of fairness. That's exactly how our justice systems are supposed to work in Western nations. The only double standard is when we say that we will have lesser standards of procedure, evidence, and burden of proof for Saddam than we would apply to a local serial killer or brutal rapist (say).

I'm not being political about this, just trying to explain the concepts. I don't even mean to sound patronising about it. Maybe some of the other lawyers here can explain it better than I'm managing to do.

we have lawyers at wtaword are u serious. Lol
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanovic
we have lawyers at wtaword are u serious. Lol
Yeah, you would be amazed. Some people here actually know how to spell too
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck
Yeah, you would be amazed. Some people here actually know how to spell too
no seriously - is n e 1 here like a lawyer or a doctor??
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck
Yeah, you would be amazed. Some people here actually know how to spell too
Yes im serious Hissein/Hussein is spelt Hussain.

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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
The facts proving him a "bastard" are overwhelming - what I dont understand is the double standard by the UN - first they spend years hunting him down - trying to bring him to juctice for the grusome crimes he carried out - and now that they have him, they're trying to defend him - i dont get it.
Thats the point. They are defending his right for a fair trial, there is no hypocrasy involved in that. Basically, they are letting a jury/judge (not sure how the system theyre using goes) decide whether or not he is guilty without assuming, before the trail is over, that he is.


Quote:
I dont think it really matters under what laws he is been prosecuted under - I think he should be VERY glad that it is his own constitution judging him - if he was in Hague or somewhere in Washington he would be hanged by now - dont you think? I mean I struggle to find one world leader that doesnt want Hussein to be sentenced to death or life in prison. He should be glad that the Iraqi judges are so soft on him - because his courtroom behaviour is totally unneceptable even by Iraqi standards.
[/QUOTE]

Why should be he be glad? He has a right to a fair trial just as much as anyone else. MMmmm wait for the outcome? The trial isn't over and so how do you know he won't be executed?

Just because you abhor him and he as purportedly acted in a cruel and wrong way doesn't mean that we should decide that he should be hung without actually considering the possibility he might not be as guilty as others have said.

Amelie Mauresmo - Aus Open and Wimbledon Champion 06
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanovic
we have lawyers at wtaword are u serious. Lol
Lawyers can like tennis aswell you know

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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanovic
no seriously - is n e 1 here like a lawyer or a doctor??
Several people here have law degrees. Well, I can immediately think of three (denise, kiwifan, and myself), but I seem to remember that there are some others who are maybe not so well known as posters on this board. All three whom I've mentioned have actually practised law professionally or still do. Why is that so odd?

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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:43 AM
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I don't think that Saddam can ever receive a "fair" trial in the way that a normal person would, for the simple reason that everyone knows who he is and what he is supposed to have done. I am sure that he is guilty of many crimes, and so will the judges be, and this will inevitably prejudice their decision. One is supposed to go into these trials with an objective mindset, and in his case that is impossible.

...and I've got a law degree as well
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:52 AM
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I think hes getting a percectly fair trial!

Everyone he massacred over the years nevere got a fair trail they didn't even get a trial of any kind. Most of them were just innocent memebers of the population anyway.

I think most Iraqi people think he should just be killed straight away.

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