Intelligent Design Debate In US- Non US Posters, What Do You Think??? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Intelligent Design Debate In US- Non US Posters, What Do You Think???

The theory holds that life and living things show signs of having been designed.
Intelligent Design primary argument is that life is too complex to have simply "happened."

There is currently a big push in the US to teach this in high school as an alternative to Evolution.

Because the visible support behind the movement is primarily from the Christian conservative right, critics charges this is another attempt of re-introducing creationism teaching in high school.


Creationism is the belief in the literal interpretation of the account of the creation of the universe and of all living things related in the Bible.


Is there a similar movement in your country?
What do you or people in your country think of this?

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 01:54 PM
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Neither theory can be definitively proven. Either way you need faith.

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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesFan70
Neither theory can be definitively proven. Either way you need faith.
Just because evolution may not have been "proven" does not mean that it won't be. Evolution can be proven, because it's a scientifically debatable theory.

"Intelligent design," on the other hand, is devoid of any type of science. It has no place in schools.


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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 02:00 PM
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You no more need faith to accept the theory of evolution than you need it for the theory of aerodynamics or any other well-corroborated scientific theory.

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 02:27 PM
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that of course goes into the broader discussion of the existence of God, or a superior being.

It's interesting how the religious groups twist things, basically they are walking away from the argument about God's existence, but obviously, if you believe the God exists you also believe he created life, and if you believe that life was "intelligently" designed then you believe in God, although maybe you don't call him God.

It's also interesting how the religious groups always attribute divine origin to anything they don't have an explanation for.

The fact we don't know an answer doesn't mean the answer doesn't exist, we just don't know it, and there always will be answer we don't know.

2000 years ago, they didn't know why lighting happened, it was God's weapon or however they called it, today it would be ridiculous to say that.

God, as defined by religions does not make sense to me, from a logical point of view, and I expect someone to tell me that not everything is logic, and my answer is what the fuck? Everything follows the rules of logic, one way or the other, everything happens for a reason, even if we don't know what that reason is (and it's not necessarily a superior power).

The first question I would ask to those creationist is what they understand as "intelligent", intelligent as in human intelligence? or some other type of intelligence?

If life was intelligently designed, why is it so imperfect? and don't come with the bullshit that God is testing us blah, blah. It does not make any sense, if God is perfect, why would he want to test us? is he playing with us? That's the biggest contradiction in religions, God does everything, knows everything, and yet we (his creation) can commit sin, freewill blah blah, just doesn't make any sense.

Aristotle noted that, there is a contradiction between perfection (of God) and love and freewill. If God is perfect he cannot love us, the same way we don't love ants. If God controls everything they he controls our wills, or does he control everything BUT our wills? then he is not almighty, just near.

Anyway, all that is to say that I think that theory is bullshit, and are the american politicians surprise by the low level of scientific research and development in the US?, here you have a good reason for that. Making people stupid is good to dominate and control them, but not good if you want to get a knowledge based society, they can't have it both ways.
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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The current trial in Pennsylvania, although lower profile, is reminiscent of the Scopes trial also known as The Monkey Trial of the 1925

Although there are similarities between the opposing parties, the context is different. Whereas the first trial sought to ban the teaching of evolution in high school, the current trial seeks to thwart the proposed teaching of Intelligent Design as an alternative to evolution.



Critics of the Intelligent Design teaching think it is a back door way to teaching creationism, which they charged violate the constitution clause of separation of church and state. They further charged it is favoring one religious belief, the Christian over others

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon
Anyway, all that is to say that I think that theory is bullshit, and are the american politicians surprise by the low level of scientific research and development in the US?, here you have a good reason for that..
Also, one of the contributing factors in the low level of scientific research is the stoppage of the brain drain from Europe and Asia.

We recall, during the time totalitarianism times in Eastern, Central Europe, and Russia a number of scientist in Physics, Chemistry and Math were routinely defecting to the US and were quickly granted US citizenship. Those scientists played a prominent part in the domination of scientific research by the US. That will soon change as these professors become professor emeritus and no one to replace them, because foreign graduate students in science who form a big chunk of the US university graduate school population, increasingly are returning to their country of origin. Most American tend to gravitate toward business, law and medicine



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon
Making people stupid is good to dominate and control them, but not good if you want to get a knowledge based society, they can't have it both ways.
I know voters down south who believe Geoge Bush was chosen by God to spread freedom around the world. And that is why they voted for him.
They further argue anything happening in Irak or Israel was intended by God to unfold that way, "it's all in god plan", they say.

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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 03:01 PM
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France is probably one of the most secular states in europe and/or the world. they have place for religion in school and other institutions. They are very wary of religion. No, there is no plans to teach "Creationism" in France and there never will be.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Is the caholic church, the dominant religion of France, as actively involved in politics (i.e. close ties to politcla parties) as chrisitans fundamentalist are in the US.

White conservative protestants fundmentalists, advocates of traditional value and free market back the republicans; supports the war in Irak and believe in Bush and its policy to bring freedom around the world. Geographical localete in the south, mid-west

Black protestants, liberal whites and most catholics support the democrats. Their simpathy goes to poor and advocate social programs to help them.
More skeptic about the war in Irak, and war in general. Geographical located d on both coasts and are largely ethnic.

Besides christian catholics and muslim,s what are the other dominent religious tendacies of significance in France?

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79
Is the caholic church, the dominant religion of France, as actively involved in politics (i.e. close ties to politcla parties) as chrisitans fundamentalist are in the US.
if you mean are most french catholic by descent, Yes. However, Islam is the religion most practiced in France. Schools exclude all mention of religion, and the average frenchman has a negative views about it.
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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SlugPiss
if you mean are most french catholic by descent, Yes. However, Islam is the religion most practiced in France. Schools exclude all mention of religion, and the average frenchman has a negative views about it.
Let me see if I understand this.
You mean all catholics by birth but not praticing, right?
And you are further saying within this context, there are more mulslims because more of them practice their religion than les francais de souche, but the catholic by birth are still in majority. Is this correct?

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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
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Let me see if I understand this.
You mean all catholics by birth but not praticing, right?
And you are further saying within this context, there are more mulslims because more of them practice their religion than les francais de souche, but the catholic by birth are still in majority. Is this correct?
For a tennis board
I must admit, most of you guys around here have been gifted with more than an average share of testicular fortitude. You guys fear nothing or no subject, I like that. There was a thread earlier titled "Calculus help" that had me pulling out old text and graphs, #2 pencils, reaffirming my resolve to solve any problem inserted in my range of understanding. For the calculus problem the tools and methods are objective, while for the question at hand, we lean toward things that are subjective. When dealing with spirituality and things that fall in the realm of subjectivity, the answers are necessarily infinite and cant be proven beyond a doubt. One can say, "Yes" I believe in "Evolution" especially while examining the bones of long dead Dinosaurs, who by the way are never mentioned in the theory of creation. On the other hand, my heart tells me there must be a God, because I need to assign the things that are beyond my control to someone or thing. So my little grasshoppers, what then is the correct answer? Both are correct, if we apply the known rules of our existence or Ying Yang, we find that balance is the one thing that surrounds us, so much so that it must be THE RULE of Planet Earth..EX: Male-Female, Day-Night, AC-DC, I could go on and on this planet runs on the law of opposites it is only through Ying Yang that we achieve balance and things work, so the Objective and the Subjective both must be necessary in order for us to survive, and that makes your opinion part of the total equation. If I got to deep, just try and maintain a healthy balance between evolution and creation and you will see how much better we all get along

See, I am just like you guys, I got a lot of balls for even suggesting the above premise
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 06:15 PM
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If I got to deep, just try and maintain a healthy balance between evolution and creation and you will see how much better we all get along
Creavolution!

I don't see why, if there is a god, why said god wouldn't allow its creation the ability to morph and evolve to become a better species.

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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesFan70
Creavolution!

I don't see why, if there is a god, why said god wouldn't allow its creation the ability to morph and evolve to become a better species.
EXACTAMUNDO You guys are alright
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 2005, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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For a tennis board
I must admit, most of you guys around here have been gifted with more than an average share of testicular fortitude. You guys fear nothing or no subject, I like that.
This non-tennis is very liberating on the type of topic one can post.
But it is even more gratifying that you get real rea argument that stick to the topic, not some off-hand commentsm, unlike the General Message, where the topic always carries the baggage of the poster and the player involved, to such instant the topic never get dissccused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Staticbeef
... Both are correct, if we apply the known rules of our existence or Ying Yang, we find that balance is the one thing that surrounds us, so much so that it must be THE RULE of Planet Earth..EX: Male-Female, Day-Night, AC-DC, I could go on and on this planet runs on the law of opposites it is only through Ying Yang that we achieve balance and things work, so the Objective and the Subjective both must be necessary in order for us to survive, and that makes your opinion part of the total equation. If I got to deep, just try and maintain a healthy balance between evolution and creation and you will see how much better we all get along
Are you suggesting the absence of logical explanation for Yang Ying (and complexilty of living things) could possibility be explained by the existence of higher being? Is we assume that is the case, given the competing religions of the worlds, what religion would take ownership or credit for that higher being

Quote:
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... See, I am just like you guys, I got a lot of balls for even suggesting the above premise
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Nadia Petrova Grand Slam Hope Is Fading
Updated: Jan 31. 2015
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