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post #1 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Questions about Northern Ireland and Ireland

Hi all,

I just have some questions about the situation in Northern Ireland:

1) Does the Republic of Ireland support re-unification with Northern Ireland?

2) The British and Irish governments have talked in the past about "majority consent" as to whether Northern Ireland is British or Irish. Why havn't they held a referendum to decide this? They could make it 51% or over, and have a vote on it, wouldn't that solve the situation?

3) They have had all these agreements, and attempts to have multi-party multi-faith governments, but I guess this hasn't worked due to some boycotts. What is the likelihood of Northern Ireland separating from Great Britain? Does Great Britain hold on to Northern Ireland only because of the strong lobby group by Protestants or "Loyalists" who want to stay with Great Britain?

Thank you to anyone who helps clear this up for me. I came across a documentary about the violence and history of Northern Ireland, which got me even more curious and got me to think of these questions, which I have been unable to answer.
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post #2 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 06:18 PM
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Gee there isn't enough days in the year to discuss Northern Ireland. Basically there is not majority consent to leave the UK since there is a Protestant majority in NI, although it has decrease to about 55-45%. I can't see NI leaving the UK as an independent state as it could not financially support itself as it is the poorest region of the UK.
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post #3 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polishprodigy
Hi all,

I just have some questions about the situation in Northern Ireland:

1) Does the Republic of Ireland support re-unification with Northern Ireland?
Not officially, they gave up claims to it a long time ago (partly so as not to condone terrorism, I expect). Probably a lot of Irish people do, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishprodigy
2) The British and Irish governments have talked in the past about "majority consent" as to whether Northern Ireland is British or Irish. Why havn't they held a referendum to decide this? They could make it 51% or over, and have a vote on it, wouldn't that solve the situation?
No need, the proportions are generally known. Protestants are a fairly large majority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishprodigy
3) They have had all these agreements, and attempts to have multi-party multi-faith governments, but I guess this hasn't worked due to some boycotts. What is the likelihood of Northern Ireland separating from Great Britain? Does Great Britain hold on to Northern Ireland only because of the strong lobby group by Protestants or "Loyalists" who want to stay with Great Britain?
The likelihood is very low, right now. Britain holds on to Northern Ireland because the majority of Northern Irish people consider themselves British.

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post #4 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, a complex conflict!

I just read that the Republic of ireland ammended its constitution so as to take away its claim to the territory of Northern Ireland, in order to try to convince Protestants that they would not be forced into joining Ireland.

Northern Ireland is poor, they were saying once the most poor next to Portugal in all of Western Europe. But wouldn't joining Ireland make it richer?
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post #5 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 06:40 PM
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When the good friday agreement came about, the people of the Republic of Ireland had to vote whether to amend the constitution in order to abandon article 33 (that is the claim that Ireland included Northern Ireland), 73% voted in favour of amendment.

There is a tendency to think that if an united Ireland did occur it would bankrupt the Republic of Ireland
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post #6 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polishprodigy
Wow, a complex conflict!

I just read that the Republic of ireland ammended its constitution so as to take away its claim to the territory of Northern Ireland, in order to try to convince Protestants that they would not be forced into joining Ireland.

Northern Ireland is poor, they were saying once the most poor next to Portugal in all of Western Europe. But wouldn't joining Ireland make it richer?
Actually ex-Yugoslavia which is considered part of western Europe has countries like Bosnia and Macedonia and Kosovo region which is far poorer than N. Ireland. In fact N. Ireland actually has a higher capita income than even Portugal and Greece. N. Ireland due to its location thus is not as poor as these countries/regions.
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post #7 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 09:06 PM
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Sorry...who considers Yugoslavia Western Europe?
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post #8 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2005, 09:09 PM
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During the Cold War, Yugoslavia was communist but was not a satellite of the Soviet Union. It was friendlier with western Europe than with the Soviets and their allies and so it was considered as being West of the 'Iron Curtain'. Yugoslavia was also in the 70s and 80s richer than any country from Eastern Europe and had same standard of living as in Portugal. Perhaps this was due to the richer regions of Slovenia and Croatia.

Last edited by Lord Nelson; Jun 26th, 2005 at 09:43 PM.
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post #9 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 02:17 PM
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northern ireland=part of britain
ireland=on their muthafukin selves

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post #10 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 02:37 PM
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Lets go back to the original partition of 1922, when the original IRA (Irish Republican Army) negotiated independence for 26 of the 32 counties, creating the Republic of Ireland. 6 counties with a Protestant majority were carved out to create "Ulster Province", aka Northern Ireland.

Now lets compare that "take it or leave" it deal (that got IRA leader Michael Collins killed by a Catholic hardliner, though his rival and partner Eamonn DeValera was Ireland's leader for decades afterwards) with 1990's South Africa.

Many white Afrikaaners wanted a similar "white majority state" created. But the world had progressed (maybe due to the ethnic genocide of WWII) to where it backed Nelson Mandela in flat out rejecting such "apartheid by mapmakers".

Had the Irish Republic not broken away from Britain until then, I doubt that there'd even be a Northern Ireland today.
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post #11 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 02:57 PM
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Most of the portestants in Northern Ireland are mainly descended not from English settlers but from Scottish settlers who were given land there by James VI of Scotland when he became King James I of England (Ireland was only conquered at the end of Elizabeth I's reign). Ireland was not formally merged with Great Britain for another 200 years.

What would happen if Scotland and England dissolved their union? As it wouldn't (couldn't because of the legal status of the union) ) be a case of one leaving the union and the other staying, there would be a need to decide where Northern Ireland would go. Independance or union with the Irish republic, Scotland or England?

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post #12 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR*
Lets go back to the original partition of 1922, when the original IRA (Irish Republican Army) negotiated independence for 26 of the 32 counties, creating the Republic of Ireland. 6 counties with a Protestant majority were carved out to create "Ulster Province", aka Northern Ireland.

Now lets compare that "take it or leave" it deal (that got IRA leader Michael Collins killed by a Catholic hardliner, though his rival and partner Eamonn DeValera was Ireland's leader for decades afterwards) with 1990's South Africa.

Many white Afrikaaners wanted a similar "white majority state" created. But the world had progressed (maybe due to the ethnic genocide of WWII) to where it backed Nelson Mandela in flat out rejecting such "apartheid by mapmakers".

Had the Irish Republic not broken away from Britain until then, I doubt that there'd even be a Northern Ireland today.

In fact alot of catholics blame Eamon DeValera as it was his selfishness and ego that prevented the creation of an Irish State to begin with. Most settlers were as been previously outlines Scottish but it was an English monarchy who brought them here.

Northern Ireland's probs are built on history and politics and god I wish they would get over it

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post #13 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightous
In fact alot of catholics blame Eamon DeValera as it was his selfishness and ego that prevented the creation of an Irish State to begin with. Most settlers were as been previously outlines Scottish but it was an English monarchy who brought them here.

Northern Ireland's probs are built on history and politics and god I wish they would get over it
OK, DeValera wasn't perfect. You made no attempt though to answer my contrast between Ireland 1916-22 and South Africa 1990-94 (re. carving out "homelands" for ethnic minorities or not).
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post #14 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 03:41 PM
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I didn't answer it b/c i don't think its relevant they are two completely different situations and contexts, driven by different political, social and economic forces

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post #15 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2005, 03:42 PM
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DeValera not perfect, the man was a power hungry animal who thought only of himself and not his country. Although I should add i am not a republican!!lol

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