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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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China's anti-Japan rallies spread

China's anti-Japan rallies spread

Anti-Japanese protests have been building throughout the week

Anti-Japanese protests have erupted in China for the second day running, spreading from Beijing to the southern province of Guangdong.

The rallies follow a 10,000-strong march in the Chinese capital - the city's biggest protest since 1999.

Protesters are angry at a new Japanese history textbook which they believe plays down Japan's wartime atrocities.

Japan has protested to China after stone-throwing protesters attacked Japan's embassy in Beijing on Saturday.

Japan's foreign minister is to visit China next week to discuss "a number of bilateral and international issues", a spokesman for Japan's Foreign Ministry said.

Security measures

At least 3,000 people demonstrated at the Japanese consulate in the southern city of Guangzhou on Sunday, shouting for a boycott of Japanese goods and burning Japanese flags.

A Japanese diplomat said some windows in the consulate were broken.

Hong Kong cable television showed protesters with Chinese flags and banners reading "down with Japanese militarism".




In pictures: Anti-Japan rallies
The rape of Nanjing



A city hall spokesman said the "spontaneous demonstration" was peaceful and under control.

China says it has mobilised a huge police force to maintain order.

Thousands more marched in Shenzhen, also in the southern Guangdong province, and threw objects at Japanese-owned businesses.

On Saturday, Japan summoned the Chinese ambassador to demand a formal apology, after windows at its embassy in Beijing were broken during a demonstration, despite the presence of Chinese police.

The ambassador, Wang Yi, said Beijing did not condone the protests.

However, correspondents say the fact that Saturday's demonstration took place at all signals tacit acceptance, if not approval, by the authorities.

'Whitewash'

The protests were sparked by new Japanese schoolbooks, which many Chinese say whitewash Japan's occupation of much of China during the 1930s and early 1940s.

Critics are angered that one of the books refers to the killing of more than 250,000 civilians by Japanese troops in the Chinese city of Nanjing in 1937 as an "incident", rather than the "massacre" it is known as elsewhere.

China says it mobilised police to protect Japanese buildings



They also say it glosses over mass sex slavery of Asian women by Japanese troops.

Anti-Japanese sentiment has also been fuelled by Japan's campaign for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

Many Chinese feel Japan has not yet addressed its wartime history, and as such is not fit to take up such a position of responsibility, says the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes in Beijing. Tokyo says private companies, not the government, were responsible for the texts, and that it is up to individual school districts to decide which books they use. The book, approved by a local education authority, is one of many and has been taken up by a tiny proportion of schools in Japan, our correspondent says.
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 02:42 PM
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I think part of the reason why protests have gotten violent was because the CCP initiated a "patriotic education" scheme in the late 80s and 90s - a majort part of that scheme was to stir up anti-Japanese sentiments to both effect better control on the public and divert attention away from domestic problems.

I, for one, do not think that these "demonstrations" will do anyone any good. Look at how many times these nationalists have been burning up the Hinomaru in front of Japanese consulate buildings - has it achieved anything progressive besides gaining media attention and showing how violent these extremists can be? If anything, those media images will make many people think that Chinese and South Koreans are little more than violent xenophobes, which is completely unfair to those open-minded people who want to build good relations in Japan and don't take part in these demonstrations.

But these protesters do have a point: Japan has yet to offer an official apology. Plus much of the monetary compensations its made to its neighbours have been directed toward government spending (in China and South Korea) on rebuilding the domestic economy and infrastructure. Many of the victims of war crimes were left out because the money wasn't meant to be directed to them - it was for the nation(s) as a whole. They do have a right to demand for Japan to follow Germany's lead and do more to demonstrate remorse.

What they do not have a right to do is to make racist, blanket statements about Japanese people in general. It is outrageous how they unfairly label Japan as "little Japan" (a derogatory term used in China for centuries). If they want to vent their anger on specific rightist figures, such as Shintaro Ishihara, for making provocative statements, then they should direct it at them only. Pick out the individuals rather than generalise on the population as a whole. Can anybody honestly claim that they've met every one of the 127 million Japanese people on this planet?

It's also ridiculous to vilify the younger Japanese population as well. Many of them were born after the conclusion of WWII, and thus, are in no way directly responsible for the damages inflicted back then. Why should they be made to suffer racist attacks?

Take a recent incident for one: two Japanese students in Shanghai were brutally bashed by rampaging Chinese students. I mean, what on earth were those Chinese students thinking? Why injure innocent bystanders just to prove a point?

And let's not forget that rather violent Asia Cup incident last year, where soccer fans in China constantly booed, shouted and chanted racist, anti-Japan slogans. Rather stupid gestures if you ask me - a majority of those Japanese soccer players were in their 20s, so unless the Japanese army had a way of nurturing deadly fetuses to attack a nation of almost a billion, they had no part in inflicting damages on China.

IMO, the Japanese Education Ministry was extremely stupid and wrong to provoke China by approving those textbooks. And Koizumi really should've restrained from visiting the Yasukuni shrine. Plus an official apology from Japan is long overdue.

However, China has no right to fan the flames. Their politicians continually blame Japan for insitgating anti-Japan protests yet they themselves have done nothing more than give the usual round of excuses "there's nothing more we can do [to prevent violent demonstrations] except give weak assurances for our people to remain calm". It's their responsibility to control their citizens' behaviour.

Last edited by Musashino; Apr 11th, 2005 at 03:16 PM.
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior
China's anti-Japan rallies spread
A city hall spokesman said the "spontaneous demonstration" was peaceful and under control.
He/she has got to be kidding. If stone throwing, vandalism, publicly incinerating flags and chanting anti-Japanese slogans is considered "peaceful", then I wonder what the CCP considers "violent"

Besides, it was one of the biggest and most "active" demonstrations since the own thrown in America's 'honour' when the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia was bombed a few years ago.

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The ambassador, Wang Yi, said Beijing did not condone the protests.
Of course not. Why would the CCP do that? They're aware of the reprucussions that such demonstrations can have on the country's social cohesion and stability as a whole, but the demonstrations aren't aimed at the domestic government - it's aimed at a foreign one. Plus, Japan is considered by China to be its main rival for dominance in Asia, so such demonstrations would be a blessing in disguise for the government.

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Many Chinese feel Japan has not yet addressed its wartime history, and as such is not fit to take up such a position of responsibility, says the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes in Beijing.
Translation: Any attempts made by Tokyo to further its international prestige and standing will be immediately revoked by China, regardless of whether they feel past incidents have been properly "addressed".

I honestly think that even if Japan finally offers that long awaited apology and reparation, China will still oppose its entry into the UNSC. Why would China want to give up its status as the only Asian nation to have a presence in such a powerful and exclusive international body?

Don't get me wrong: Japan should still do what it should've done a long time ago and not drag this issue out any longer. It's worn dangerously thin.

But China should not give such an air of moral pretence when it knows very well that there's no chance in hell that they'll ever support any moves by Japan to increase her power.

Last edited by Musashino; Apr 12th, 2005 at 06:30 AM.
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 04:17 PM
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The protesters are wrong to carry on like this and should find more peaceful ways to get their point across, but Japan is to blame too. They should have already acknowledged their war crimes and not try to pretend it never happened. If they just did that it would put an end to all this rubbish, and I dont understand why its so hard for them.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 04:43 PM
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Ever since I was born, my parents (from Hong Kong) told me that Japanese were cruel cause they hide their past war-activities. Due to the fact that I was born in Germany, a country where you constantly get reminded at their past, I can definetly say that something is very wrong in the way Japan handles their portray of history and I am pretty mad about that.

The whole world knows which role Japan played during those times and it is pretty ironic that a lot of Japanese, of all people, donīt know that anymore due to their education.

Of course you canīt blame most of Japanīs population, as someone has already said, those were born after the incident, but people shouldnīt forget about their own countryīs past. A country is made up of history and it just pisses me off when they just change facts. Of course China also doesnīt have a clean record, but if Japan continues belittleing their deeds, China will continue protesting and someday Japanese donīt even know anymore why the Chinese protest...and so and so on...itīs like a doom loop: They fight each other without really knowing the reason anymore (like the beating someone mentioned before).

...and yes, I have japanese friends, I just hate the behaviour of the government

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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 05:30 PM
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Sad but true...and also thank you for showing that Germany really isnīt the country anymore at all which it was a few decades ago due to fact that Germany admits to its own failures. Itīs sad though that there are people who think that Germany is still full of Nazis and I am pretty glad that I never had to sing the national antheme anywhere (I bet 80% of all germans donīt even know the words to it...I know the first three lines).

However, this is not the main topic...

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Last edited by Spunky83; Apr 11th, 2005 at 05:39 PM.
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 06:04 PM
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Actually the Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles is pretty know amongst the German population. I don't see anything wrong with German national hymn. It's patriotic more than anything else. As for the anti Japanese violence it needs to cease.
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 06:35 PM
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Thumbs down

While I think these demonstrations were organised by the communist regime in China
I still think Japans record of acknowledging it's war crimes are pretty disgraceful for instance Japan has never paid compensation to the victims such as the British pows forced to build the Burma railroad as well as the millions of Asians who suffered under brutal Japanese occupation.

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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Nelson
Actually the Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles is pretty know amongst the German population. I don't see anything wrong with German national hymn. It's patriotic more than anything else. As for the anti Japanese violence it needs to cease.
...I donīt know if you were joking but the song you are referring to was banned and is illegal!!! Itīs the old one! And I think you also donīt get the german culture. Patriotism is a "no-no" in Germany.

Our "new" hmyn is totally different!!!

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 09:11 PM
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The thing is Germany has changed; but Japan thinks it has changed.

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunky83
...I donīt know if you were joking but the song you are referring to was banned and is illegal!!! Itīs the old one! And I think you also donīt get the german culture. Patriotism is a "no-no" in Germany.

Our "new" hmyn is totally different!!!
YOu have a new hymn, are you sure? I hear the deutschland one all the time at the Olympics. It was composed by a famous Austrian in the 19th or 18th Century. When Germany decided to make it their national hymn words were added. Look, patriotism exists everywhere including in Germany. Germans are like all of us & they have the right to be patriot. In fact the new generation of Germans are tired of feeling guilty for what the older generation did during WWII.
As for Hautebois, yes you are right. the Japanese should not modify their textbooks. But both of your nations should resolve this peacefully. It's good to see China & India (I'm part Indian) trying to improve relations & boost their trade.
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2005, 11:26 PM
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Yup, I also hear the Deutschland at the World cup? So may be it's only the lyrics to the anthem that were changed/illegal.

As for Japan, apologize, compensate and get with grips with your past, or else don't be so surprised when these protests erupt.
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2005, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hautbois
The worst part is, that the Japanese soldiers that did this were not punished.
Some of them were. Tojo, the man behind most of Japan's war crimes, was hanged.

The problem is that a large number of Japanese soldiers were not punished to the extent that Nazi ones were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hautbois
Many Japanese refuse to acknowledge that it ever existed, and most don't think of it as a wrongdoing on Japan's part.
Please provide stats to show that "many" Japanese people don't "acknowledge" that those crimes ever happened.

I have many Japanese friends and each and every one of them admit that Japan was wrong in having killed 300,000 civilians in the Rape of Nanjing and that the government should issue a formal apology for it.

So far, the only ones who I've seen openly deny the past have come from right wingers within sections of the government and their affiliates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hautbois
Most Chinese people believe that Japan has not apologised for it's atrocities, and the fact that they did this in broad daylight, raping and murdering for their own pleasure and subsquently denying it, is something hard to forgive.
Japan has made apologies before.

The problem is that the apology hasn't been an official one - i.e. a formal declaration. Rather, the apologies given from past Japanese PMs have been personal rather than binding.

Plus, monetary compensation has been made. Why else would China have been Japan's no.1 destination for foreign aid since diplomatic relations were established in the early 70s?

But the problem here is that the money being given did not go directly into the pockets of those who had suffered directly. Rather, it went into restoring the economy and infrastructures.

And because an official apology has not been made, former victims find it nearly impossible to lodge a plausible legal case in Japanese courts to sue for compensation. Legally, a personal apology does not encompass the entire nation. An official apology does.

So please be more specific when you say that no "apologies" have been given

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hautbois
There are a number of Japanese (I stress the word Japanese) websites that suggest that it never happened, that it was 'a figment of the imagination'. This is especially odd, considering that there were thousands, millions, of witnesses, French, English, American, German etc., who saw what was going on. As well as this there is VIDEO FOOTAGE and many many photographs and documents of this 'incident'.
In nearly all cases, these websites you speak of are manufactured and built by extremists.

There are a number of Chinese-made websites which not only point out Japan's past crimes, but also use it as an opportunity to vent racist diatribes.

Would it be fair of me to take those Chinese websites as an example of "many" Chinese people being outright racists?

I think not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hautbois
Japanese War Criminals received full military pensions and benefits from Japanese government
Maybe you should watch the Japanese-made documentary, "Riben Guizi". From what I saw, many Japanese war criminals did not receive anything close to that "full military pensions and benefits" you mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hautbois
But millions of their victims and families suffered, and continue to suffer in poverty, shame, chronic physical and mental pain, WMD Death Toll and WMD Injuries including Children continue to rise due to Japanese abandonded WMD weapons to this day .........
And yet this all justifies those violent demonstrations?

Last edited by Musashino; Apr 12th, 2005 at 03:52 AM.
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2005, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunky83
Ever since I was born, my parents (from Hong Kong) told me that Japanese were cruel cause they hide their past war-activities. Due to the fact that I was born in Germany, a country where you constantly get reminded at their past, I can definetly say that something is very wrong in the way Japan handles their portray of history and I am pretty mad about that.

The whole world knows which role Japan played during those times and it is pretty ironic that a lot of Japanese, of all people, donīt know that anymore due to their education.

Of course you canīt blame most of Japanīs population, as someone has already said, those were born after the incident, but people shouldnīt forget about their own countryīs past. A country is made up of history and it just pisses me off when they just change facts. Of course China also doesnīt have a clean record, but if Japan continues belittleing their deeds, China will continue protesting and someday Japanese donīt even know anymore why the Chinese protest...and so and so on...itīs like a doom loop: They fight each other without really knowing the reason anymore (like the beating someone mentioned before).

...and yes, I have japanese friends, I just hate the behaviour of the government
That is an outstanding post!
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 2005, 04:01 AM
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This is how I see the current situation:

Japan is wrong for not having done what Germany did and do more to show remorse, compensate for past crimes and have its leaders offer declarations of regret and apologies.

Japan is also wrong for having its Education Ministry not do much at all to prevent textbooks, which distort historical facts, from being published and distributed to high schools. Not only is it a painful jab at those who had suffered under Japanese occupation, it's also extremely unfair on the younger Japanese population who are mostly left in the dark about their nation's past. Don't they have a right to at least know the truth?

And by not properly acknowledging its own past, the reprucussions for Japan can turn out to be quite serious. Relations with its neighbours are not as warm as they could be. Plus, it is very sad and tragic that it's the younger generation who mostly suffer from these setbacks when they have done absolutely nothing to inflict past damages and yet they seem to be the ones who are being punished for things they did not do.

Which leads me to point that the Chinese and others should not act as if the younger Japanese population deserve to cop the flak. Blame their forefathers; criticise the ones who were and are directly responsible for damaging relations - but keep the innocent out of this. The young Japanese are also being victimised as well - their government does not honour their right to know about their country's past.

So IMO, no matter how understandable in most cases these demonstrations are, it does not excuse the violence, the vandalism or the balant generalisations.

From the way I see it, China is not completely innocent from having fanned the flames in its relations with Japan.
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