Guard Testifies He Saw Jackson Perform Sex Acts - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Guard Testifies He Saw Jackson Perform Sex Acts

Guard Testifies He Saw Jackson Sex Acts

1 hour, 27 minutes ago

By TIM MOLLOY, Associated Press Writer

SANTA MARIA, Calif. - A former Neverland ranch security guard testified Thursday that in the early 1990s he saw Michael Jackson perform oral sex on a boy who later received a financial settlement from the pop star.

Ralph Chacon was called by prosecutors in Jackson's child molestation trial in a continuing effort to show the singer had a pattern of molesting or inappropriately touching boys, which would support the current accuser's claims.

Chacon said he was making his rounds at Jackson's estate on an overnight shift in late 1992 or early 1993 when he saw Jackson and the boy in a whirlpool bath. He said he later saw them take a shower together, then leave the shower and stand naked across from each other.

Chacon said Jackson caressed the boy's hair, kissed him on the mouth and elsewhere and engaged in oral sex.

The former guard testified that at that point he left.

The boy received a multimillion-dollar settlement from Jackson in 1994 and refused to cooperate in a police investigation. No charges were filed against Jackson in that case.

Jackson, 46, is on trial on charges of molesting a 13-year-old boy in 2003. The judge ruled that prosecutors may present evidence of alleged past improprieties involving five boys.

The guard testified after a one-day break in the trial that allowed Jackson to attend the Los Angeles funeral of defense attorney Johnnie Cochran Jr., who represented the singer in the 1994 settlement.

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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 08:19 PM
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Martian Bagel
So - if it's true - he saw an illegal act of pedophilia and he did nothing??? He didn't stop Jackson? He didn't call the police? I question his credibility.
Oh he did something alright he sold the story to a tabloid.

I'll start believing the prosecutions case when he puts one witness up that didn't accept money or talk to a cival trial lawyer before they went to the police.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketta
Oh he did something alright he sold the story to a tabloid.

I'll start believing the prosecutions case when he puts one witness up that didn't accept money or talk to a cival trial lawyer before they went to the police.
Instead of looking for evidence that what these witnesses are saying is not true, punish possibly molested children for opportunistic witnesses....

Yesterday my mother said that Michael needs a mistrial, so he can have a do-ever and I was disgusted. If even 50% of what is being alleged about present and prior acts is true, he is obviosuly a serial pedophile and needs some consequences. I just hope he isn't doing anything appropriate to his own children.


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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:02 PM
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JustIncredible
Instead of looking for evidence that what these witnesses are saying is not true, punish possibly molested children for opportunistic witnesses....

Yesterday my mother said that Michael needs a mistrial, so he can have a do-ever and I was disgusted. If even 50% of what is being alleged about present and prior acts is true, he is obviosuly a serial pedophile and needs some consequences. I just hope he isn't doing anything appropriate to his own children.
because in our system people are innocent until *proven* guilty. It's not about thinking Michaels guilty just because someone says so it's about someone proving it. Money and Motives go hand in hand. Frankly if what the man says is true he's as big if not a bigger criminal than Michael. A pedophile is sick what's this man's excuse? He didn't want to lose his job? Also, his allegations are so outrageous the fact that he did and said absolutely nothing to authorities makes it seem not true.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketta
because in our system people are innocent until *proven* guilty. It's not about thinking Michaels guilty just because someone says so it's about someone proving it. Money and Motives go hand in hand. Frankly if what the man says is true he's as big if not a bigger criminal than Michael. A pedophile is sick what's this man's excuse? He didn't want to lose his job? Also, his allegations are so outrageous the fact that he did and said absolutely nothing to authorities makes it seem not true.
But I don't understand, why go through all the trouble of coming to court and perjuring yourself, especially when you've been paid a long time ago for your story...


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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:21 PM
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But I don't understand, why go through all the trouble of coming to court and perjuring yourself, especially when you've been paid a long time ago for your story...
well lets see he already made money selling his story to the tabloids once how much more do you think it's worth now that he tesitified in court? Why would someone work for an employer who would do that and matter fact sue that employer for his job after he was let go?
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketta
well lets see he already made money selling his story to the tabloids once how much more do you think it's worth now that he tesitified in court? Why would someone work for an employer who would do that and matter fact sue that employer for his job after he was let go?
I don't think the tabloids is going to buy the same story twice unless he has some NEW information....

Him testifying this under oath certainly makes it more believable IMO. Unless he totally fabricated times, events, persons, situation, locations, etc.

People do a lot of desperate things when they are desperate. Why would his maid continue to work for him despite seeing him in the shower with a little boy? Why won't the 1993 accusser come testify, seeing as how he was allegedly molested and he can certainly empathize with this new allegeed molesation victim?

Life is not all rosy, people cannot ALWAYS do the right thing, they sometimes become victims of circumstance.


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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketta
because in our system people are innocent until *proven* guilty. It's not about thinking Michaels guilty just because someone says so it's about someone proving it.
Unfortunately the US system is not built on a concept of proof, it is built on convincing the jury. It's different. With jury you need no proof, you just need to convince the jury. Like in Peterson's case where they had no proof whatsoever..

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustIncredible
I don't think the tabloids is going to buy the same story twice unless he has some NEW information....

Him testifying this under oath certainly makes it more believable IMO. Unless he totally fabricated times, events, persons, situation, locations, etc.

People do a lot of desperate things when they are desperate. Why would his maid continue to work for him despite seeing him in the shower with a little boy? Why won't the 1993 accusser come testify, seeing as how he was allegedly molested and he can certainly empathize with this new allegeed molesation victim?

Life is not all rosy, people cannot ALWAYS do the right thing, they sometimes become victims of circumstance.
exactly life isn't all rosy...and people lie just because they want to as well. We are not talking about just believing these people we are talking about putting someone behind bars for years and years...a higher standard needs to be met before you just believe someone's word in this circumstance. People's motives are always key in criminal cases...why the defendent possibly did it and why people would accuse the defendent are both important.

"There's this presumption of coming to court with clean hands" and unfortunately I haven't seen one person yet in this case.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketta
exactly life isn't all rosy...and people lie just because they want to as well. We are not talking about just believing these people we are talking about putting someone behind bars for years and years...a higher standard needs to be met before you just believe someone's word in this circumstance. People's motives are always key in criminal cases...why the defendent possibly did it and why people would accuse the defendent are both important.

"There's this presumption of coming to court with clean hands" and unfortunately I haven't seen one person yet in this case.
I'm confused: So all of these separate individuals have somehow all conspired (individually, but with a collective efect) against Michael to get his money over the years. So they all are painting him to be a molester performing the same acts on the same type of young boy... So they all come to court and perjure themselves telling not one shred of truth... Even after they've already gotten their money and testifying against Michael would be just for what, fun?

Michael has not come to court with clean hands either, settling multiple cases for similar allegations. I hate the blame the victim mentality that pervades American society, especially when it comes to celebrities on trial.

I can't believe firstly that so many people dont find his behavior dubious, and still run every bit of evidence through the wringer before even accepting testimony/evidence even as a possibility.


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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JustIncredible
I'm confused: So all of these separate individuals have somehow all conspired (individually, but with a collective efect) against Michael to get his money over the years. So they all are painting him to be a molester performing the same acts on the same type of young boy... So they all come to court and perjure themselves telling not one shred of truth... Even after they've already gotten their money and testifying against Michael would be just for what, fun?
Yeah isn't it amazing that after all these years there hasn't been one person outraged enough, upset enough not to go for the money?

Quote:
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Michael has not come to court with clean hands either, settling multiple cases for similar allegations. I hate the blame the victim mentality that pervades American society, especially when it comes to celebrities on trial.
who says he has?

You're saying why don't we just believe these people because they are saying it happened and I explained why in this situation you don't just believe a witness but why you hold them to a higher standard of believability..

You mistake pointing to the fact that the accusers are less than desirable on many many aspects with thinking Michael's a saint. Fyi, this trial isn't about if he did those things in the past but if he did them to the defendent. I understand why the judge let the testimony in it shows a pattern of behavior. Michaels lawyers will try to show a pattern too.....that people will lie for money. Unfortunately, most of the witnesses so far have gone for the money. That's a fact too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustIncredible
I can't believe firstly that so many people dont find his behavior dubious, and still run every bit of evidence through the wringer before even accepting testimony/evidence even as a possibility.
you don't convict people on possibilities....and really you shouldn't believe the worse about someone based on possibilities (but that's just my own opinion).

Of course everything said is possible....it's also possible that people lie....it's also possible that Michael did everything he's accused of except this last accusation which would mean he shouldn't be convicted. It's also possible some of the parents basically pimped their kid seeing a sick rich man and throwing their childs in and closing the door behind them all the while hearing the Ca-ching of the cash register.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketta
Yeah isn't it amazing that after all these years there hasn't been one person outraged enough, upset enough not to go for the money?
This is America! Decency goes out of the door when it comes to money for many, if not most, in this society.

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who says he has?

You're saying why don't we just believe these people because they are saying it happened and I explained why in this situation you don't just believe a witness but why you hold them to a higher standard of believability..
Yes because a man can go to jail for 5 years? The children who have been molested will suffer more throughout the course of their lifetimes than Michael will in jail. You saw how the young man who's mother was the maid couldn't compose himself when he had to relive the events that he said happened to him, and what happened to him was minor compared to the other allegations that have been made. I'm sorry, but my priority is to the children/victims first and foremost, not to the eccentric rich man with the high powered attorneys and several dubious distinctions, past and present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketta
You mistake pointing to the fact that the accusers are less than desirable on many many aspects with thinking Michael's a saint. Fyi, this trial isn't about if he did those things in the past but if he did them to the defendent. I understand why the judge let the testimony in it shows a pattern of behavior. Michaels lawyers will try to show a pattern too.....that people will lie for money. Unfortunately, most of the witnesses so far have gone for the money. That's a fact too.
I just don't understand...people went for the money, so they are obviously liars/fabricators? And still I ask, if theyve already gotten their money, why come and risk going to jail by perjuring yourself. It doesnt make sense to do this, if youre an opportunist, you get your money, take advantage, and move on. You don't slummet in your lies 10 years later just because.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketta
you don't convict people on possibilities....and really you shouldn't believe the worse about someone based on possibilities (but that's just my own opinion).

Of course everything said is possible....it's also possible that people lie....it's also possible that Michael did everything he's accused of except this last accusation which would mean he shouldn't be convicted. It's also possible some of the parents basically pimped their kid seeing a sick rich man and throwing their childs in and closing the door behind them all the while hearing the Ca-ching of the cash register.
Yes, I wasnt saying Michael should be convicted because all of these possibilites exist, I was just disappointed that you said that you personally wouldnt believe a thing in the prosecutions case unless they found a basically pristine witness. Of course everything is possible, its possible that a Satanic cult really did kill Laci Peterson and her child, but what was more likelyt and logical? Its OK to love Michael Jackson and hope that he is innocent and support him, but dont totally blind yourself to any possibility that he could have done the acts alleged for that reason.


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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2005, 11:53 PM
 
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Many former employees of Michael's have appeared on tabloid tv and in the tabloid papers saying these negative things. The tabloids pay good money for these stories, hell if someone offers you 50-60 G's for your story who wouldn't talk to them especially considering you are in the unemployment line?

The story sounds so outrageous that only someone without much sense would believe it. I am pretty sure the jurors will be able to see right through this testimony on cross examination. His testimony sounds like something right out of a movie. I mean you are just watching Michael and this kid engage in sexual acts and you do or say nothing.

So far the prosecution has not proved their case. They have only produced lying children, and now they are scrambling for anything to convince the jurors that Michael is indeed guilty.

Personally I think he will go to jail. However it will not be based on his guilt. IMO their is already a preconcieved guilt in the minds of those jurors. Also Michael got a chance when he got out of that other legal nightmare, and so it is my opinion that he will not escape jail this time.

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