Why is Chinese the language of the future? - TennisForum.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
Sunset, Moonrise, Winter
 
Sam L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Shangri-La
Posts: 35,182
                     
Question Why is Chinese the language of the future?

I read this in the "What languages do you want to learn?" thread. I don't know who posted and it's irrelevant because I've heard some other people allude to this as well and I just don't see it.

Why?

The problem with Chinese is that it's already the most spoken language in the world (through the sheer number of people who speak it), but it's not the most widely spread (not even close) nor the most used (in science, business and other areas).

I assume we're talking about "lingua franca" here.

For a language to achieve that it needs to be wide spread like English is now in the physical world and especially on the Internet and be most used in important areas like science, diplomacy and business.

Chinese will probably remain the MOST spoken language but I just don't see how it can become more widely spread, especially with English been how widespread it is right now and looking like it'll continue its dominance.

And in terms of areas like science and business, in the Asia-Pacific region it could become lingua franca but English is a simpler language and already used most often so I don't see it losing its status either.

The other problem is English is a neutral language for Asian people like Koreans, Japanese, Chinese and South-East Asians. Many of these people don't like their regional neighbors and I can't see them using Chinese over English.

The only way Chinese can become a true "lingua franca future language of the world" is if there is a war between English speaking countries like UK and US and China and China wins. That's the only way.

Sorry it may seem like a rant, but it's not, I just want a discussion.




Sam L is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 11:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 768
 
Actually the real contender for lingua franca in the future may be Spanish. Now there are more Spanish speakers than English speakers in the world. For those interested in languages get a load of this
1) Over the last 30 years thousands of languages have died out.
2) Yesterday, the last speaker of the only oral language spoken by women only died in Africa she was 92.
3) There are still about 3000 languages spoken across the planet today. In 20 years' time at least half of them will be extinct.
4) In North and South America alone hundreds of native American languages have disappeared since the war and those which are left are slated to go the same way
5) Some linguists think that if things go on at this rate, one century from now there might only be a score of languages left on the planet (among which Chinese, Hindi, Spanish, English, Arabic, Portuguese)
Each language which dies out is an irremediable loss. Languages are part of the human heritage just like monuments and art

undefined
Please come back in top condition, J... I miss you very badly
Truthwillout is offline  
post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 11:50 AM
country flag bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 1,264
                     
The future is now in china....I think a lot of business worldwide is trying to move its offices inside China. I guessed knowing how to speak chinese is a necessity.

Chinese is actually a very difficult language to learn... compared to English..
bee is offline  
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 12:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 377
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L
I read this in the "What languages do you want to learn?" thread. I don't know who posted and it's irrelevant because I've heard some other people allude to this as well and I just don't see it.
That was me Mate

Quote:
The problem with Chinese is that it's already the most spoken language in the world (through the sheer number of people who speak it), but it's not the most widely spread (not even close) nor the most used (in science, business and other areas).
No, your right, it's not commonly used anywhere around the world, However It apparently is the fastest growing Language and fastest spreading in Asia and Australasia, Apart from The People who speak it in China Itself, It is well used in Malaysia, Singapore. In alot of schools over in that part, Chinese is becoming a Compulsory Langiage to learn as of the Chinese Influence.

Also spoken in Taiwan etc and the more chinese influencial parts of Asia such as North Indo-China etc.

Here in NZ about 10% of the Population is Chinese, Alot are students who come to learn English, and usually end up immigrating, Secondary Schools are now seeing the benefit of the Chinese Trade and Culture and are opting to to learn the Chinese Language as a Subject.

Quote:
science, diplomacy and business.
Bingo, Chinas markets are now expanding accross the globe and opening up to the world, the share size of the Chinese Economy now is frightfully large, the share population that engulfs 1/6 of the worlds population lives overthere, You have a opening market which is letting go on it's communist state owned restrictions, together with it's ever growing population, A country with an infinite amount of investors and Investments, Surley in time to outgrow the EU and the US.

They Invested in Formula One, The Shanghai Circuit, the most advanced circuit on the Formula One Calender.

Their Space Programme, Not nearly as big as Russias or The States, but becoming just as Technological, If not more.

Quote:
Chinese will probably remain the MOST spoken language
Mandarin or Hindu, as well with the Population Chinese or Indian.

China has it's one child policy to curb the population, India doesn't, I don't know where they stand on the issue, but their population is expected to grow larger then Chinas. I geuss peice-wise the spoken language will also increase.

Quote:
but I just don't see how it can become more widely spread, especially with English been how widespread it is right now and looking like it'll continue its dominance.
Got not argument there, English is the International Language of the world, Everyone is expected to speak English. China's evergrowing economy and population is just a clear indication of how influencial China will be in the International Arena. Don't think China will take it over as the most "widley" spread language, but it's a definite language which is going to be more progressive during this generation in the next.

Quote:
The other problem is English is a neutral language for Asian people like Koreans, Japanese, Chinese and South-East Asians. Many of these people don't like their regional neighbors and I can't see them using Chinese over English.
They may well have to if they want to succeed economicially in the future, Most people who are studying Japanese at the Universities over here are the Chinese, same as Korean, the Chinese make up most of the classes.

Quote:
The only way Chinese can become a true "lingua franca future language of the world" is if there is a war between English speaking countries like UK and US and China and China wins. That's the only way.
Sorry it may seem like a rant, but it's not, I just want a discussion. [/QUOTE]
I don't see it taking over the likes of English or French as Most widley spoken Language, as you said they would have to colonize or invade a few countries and set up a few Tianemen Squares and Great Walls here and thre However as the Economy Grows in China and the interest surrounding it, the language of Chinese Grows.

This may be a tad of topic, But look in Auckland NZ, Look around the Streets of the Gold Coast and Brisbane, even in Sydney, Ozzie and NZ have a large growing Asian Populations, Noticabley Chinese, Her in NZ by the year 2025 Chinese are expected to make 25% of the population. Quite a Scary thought huh?
Cuckoo is offline  
post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 12:23 PM
Senior Member
 
"Sluggy"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,784
                     
nnnnneh, i think Chinese is an important languague, but its not going to eclipse American as the The international language.
"Sluggy" is offline  
post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 377
                     
American is a Language? you mean English?
Cuckoo is offline  
post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 12:54 PM
Senior Member
 
"Sluggy"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,784
                     
American, like the international language. I belive American English is the English that is spoken internationally. Many places use deformations of the forefathers English, but you never hear people in the United Nations saying "The Rayn is Spaaaaain Stays Maynly on the PLayyn".
"Sluggy" is offline  
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Senior Member
 
"Sluggy"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,784
                     
I didnt explicity say that American English is better or that we are the best. here is the article which i think illustrates the domination of American English throughout the world:

American English an oxymoron?
Why is "American English" supposed to be an oxymoron --- or at least more so than, say, Australian English, Latin American Spanish or Quebecois French? Perhaps a better word for American English would be majority English. After all, most English speakers worldwide speak and write a variety from North America. This comment strikes me as non-NPOV, and an attempt to portray some social-class-bound insular dialect as normative, an attitude which ever has been and remains a jaw-dropping pretension. -- IHCOYC 11:47 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Most? Since when?
Population of the USA: around 280 millions. Canada adds 85% of 31 millions. Population of the UK is 58 millions, add 19 millions for Australia, 8m for New Zealand and maybe 4m for the native English speaking population of South Africa. No matter how you slice the pie, the center of gravity for the English language is in North America and not in any of the outlying islands. -- IHCOYC 13:40 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
In India English is the language in which most university courses are taught. It is also the language used in most areas of administration, and they have many English language newspapers. Out of a total population of 1 billion potential speakers, some 40 million plus Indians speak British English there. The situation is similar in countries like Pakistan, Ghana, Nigeria and Singapore etc. etc. When English is taught as a foreign language in Europe and elsewhere it is very often taught as British English through organizations like the British Council.

When I was in Sweden in the mid-1970s, the saying there was that people over 35 had learned British English in school, and that people under 30 learned American English. -- IHCOYC 15:10 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
IHCOYC is correct, at least regarding number of speakers. There are 341 million first language speakers of English, 210 million of those are in the United States (228 million in North America). There are 508 million including second language speakers, and 240 million of those are in the United States (260 million in North America). I'm not even accounting for some English usage being American rather than British (or another Commonwealth country) in origin outside of North America. It is also worrisome that some Wikipedia editors feel obliged to move pages and alter spelling on the basis that Commonwealth English is not only more correct, but is also more common than either American English or North American English. (My United States figures are actually a bit low since they date from 1984 and most of the other figures are from the late 1990s.) I believe the US probably has the most influence on the English language today, although only partially due to the influence of numbers. More of the influence is through movies, television, books, the internet, and other media. More immediately, I think Wikipedia would benefit from a clearer definition and analysis of the various types of English, including different orthographies. My figures are primarily from http://www.ethnologue.com/ Daniel Quinlan 08:21, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

The main thing that concerns me is when British English is taken as a familiar norm in descriptions of other languages. I've seen pronunciation guides that say to pronounce Goethe as "Gertie," for example. Reference to the variety of broad A and O sounds in British English are other frequent sources of confusion; most North Americans don't even hear the sounds as separate phonemes. Since the introduction of the IPA this sort of thing is seen less often, but there's still a lot of it in older reference books; and older reference books have a way of being perpetuated here.
Some writers on British English treat American English with profound condescension. This annoys especially when you realize that the prestige dialect of British English is strongly bound to social class --- you had to have gone to a handful of the "right" boarding schools to get it exactly right --- and a dialect spoken by a much smaller percentage of the population of the British Isles than Standard American is in North America. There's a passage in Fowler's The King's English that mocks American place names like Indianapolis and Memphis, as if Bognor Regis or Stow-on-the-Wold were superior in euphony or dignity. This tradition is not wholly dead among the prescriptive usage writers, and I think that some North Americans are still cowed by it. -- IHCOYC 13:58, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
"Proper" British English is not simply the preserve of the public school elite - whilst it may be true that those from the public schools may be more likely to use RP in their everyday speech, most across the nation know how to use the correct form and do so for official documents etc., even if they revert to their local dialect for normal usage. Even though I was comprehensive-schooled (in Scotland nonetheless) I still know how to correctly use the English Language and so do those around me. This appears to be in contrast with the situation in the USA. 217.43.185.226 10:34, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Oh the superiority of everything American! Hah! Considering the linguistic inabilities of your president, the hilarity of watching winners of Oscars trying to construct sentences and the sheer inability of an astonishing number of American students to communicate in any even moderately articulate manner (which is why a number of European universities in the last five years have been forced to start summer courses for visiting American students with special 'basic english' grinds explaining such things as use of verbs, definite and indefinite articles, how to use the past tense!!!) America can hardly brag about its skill or knowledge of english. The lame excuse about comparing population numbers is a nonsense. American english (well at least the lliterate variety) is found on the American continent. The result of the world uses British english or a nativised version of British english, in which some aspects of American english may make an appearance. In no sense can American english claim the right to be the international brand of english and it is a particularly ludicrous form of arrogance to think it can, based on the fact that there are more people in America that in Britain, Ireland, Australia. But the worst form of 'so called' english has got to be MTV english, which consists of nothing more than a string of empty-headed, poorly constructed cliches with all the substance of a quarter pounder and fries. :-) FearÉIREANN 14:41, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the point of this discussion. Whoever added "oxymoron" to this article was obviously aiming tickle a few ribs with some humour. I am given to understand from the couple of business trips I've made to Sweden that they very sensibly take courses in Business English (which leans towards British English as much of Sweden's business is centred on the EU) and Technical English (which leans towards American English for spellings like 'program' and 'color' extensively used in software). Whatever the figures say (and I dispute the validity of your source Daniel which quotes only 11 million speakers of English in India from a 1960s survey) there's no denying that a significant number of people prefer to read and write in British English. It's just the same with American English of course; only the vast majority of British English speakers don't live in the state of technical bliss that is the USA. On Wikipedia we quite rightly have a policy at http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPOV#A..._point_of_view decrying Americo-centrism in view of the fact that this is an international encyclopaedia. It's a shame that attempts to roll-back Americo-centrism as sometimes paranoiacally(sic) seen anti-Americanism by certain individuals. Let the status quo survive. Mintguy 15:13, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The two points I actually sought to make was that calling American English an "oxymoron" struck me as a violation of NPOV; and that assuming easy familiarity with the phonemic structure of British English is not a good idea in explaining the pronunciation of non-English words. I do admit to being somewhat ornery about the Brits presuming to judge "Americanisms," and the supposed pre-eminence and universality of the British boarding-school dialect. I went to grade school in Canada, and learned a subset of the British spellings myself. I'm not on a tear to remove them.
I cheerfully agree that Dubya is no Churchill. -- IHCOYC 19:05, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
You are a bit behind the times as regards english dialects. The days when Oxbridge english was viewed as the correct version have long long since gone. Right now, a BBC programme is on using scouse (a dialect I hate, BTW. It sounds to me like a cat chewing a wasp.) But BBC Four seems to require it. 'Proper english', ie, Oxbridge, has been out of fashion for decades, with Estuary English, Scouse etc far more popular. BTW 2 (sounds like a TV station that!:-) I came across a US student's history essay that has down in my university's history as one of the worst attempt at communication ever witnessed. (You'll enjoy this!) Writing about the Irish Easter Rising, an American woman (allegedly a history major, though I find it hard to believe!) wrote:

It is like the Irish don't like the english and their rules. So they like rebel in Easter. Patrik (sic) Pierce (sic) leads the rebells (sic) and they take a big post office in Oconnel (sic) street, and they gang up on the British. And they tell them like 'no queen here'. But the english don't like it and send in their soldiers from the first world war in France or somewhere to stop them. And the english like arrest Pierce and devillera (sic) and lock them in a big prisom (sic) but the Irish keep rebelling and rebelling and get their new republic with devillera as president and Michael Collin's (sic) becomes his right hand man. And then they fight a war of independents. And the Irish throws the english out and then have a civil war, where Collin's is killed at Bale na Bla (sic) and Northern Ireland joins england and the queen.
AAAAAGH! And that is only one paragraph. The strange thing was that the woman could not understand when she got a fail mark for the paper! She said she had never failed anything before in her life. The question on all our lips was, how could she have possibly passed a single exam in her life, let alone make it to college? But she was the worst. Nobody else has ever quite hit that level of awfulness, though every year some try and come close! :-) FearÉIREANN 20:03, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

One doesn't want to belabor a point or anything, and perhaps this effusion should be passed over in silence; but would you mind explaining just what in the bloody Hell that has to do with the article that this page supposedly exists to improve? Dandrake 02:03, Mar 17, 2004 (UTC)
I expexct she'll get a job as a Hollywood screenwriter. Andy G 20:29, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Anti-intellectualism (zeech! that page needs a real article) is a major feature of the culture of the USA. One of the many ways this trait manifests is in a certain impatience with usage norms. Reading is a solitary vice to most Americans, and it gives you no fresh air and exercise. There are indeed many US high schools who would look at that paper and see that the student had learned where the event took place, who the combatants were, and kept in mind enough proper nouns to make small talk about the Uprising. And that would in the minds of many teachers be enough. Spelling and grammar is another department.
Now if you want to hear ugly English, let me send you to Tennessee. The speech of that state, especially in the female mouth, sounds like a cat being tortured.
You haven't heard an Ozark dialect then. Then again there are both Western and Eastern accents within the Dialects. I'm always shocked by a lot of these studies on phonology and dialects within the US... When they get to MO, Southern Il, and Arkansas they don't tend to do enough studies, especially as the demographic centor of the US is in MO. I can't find the article, or perhaps it was this one, but there was one a few days ago which listed the differences in the Saint Louis Metro Area from Midwestern English. The blurb wasn't quite right but it was right in the fact that the Peoples inside Saint Louis City and in parts of the county talk different than lets say 30 miles away in Franklin and Jeffereson counties and that the dialect is unique to St. Louis. It was wrong becuase it grouped accents in the saint louis area which are actually in deep Franklin Counties and Jeff Counties. The accent in Tennessee is actually pleasent compared to that of your typical Ozarkian.
But most of this seems to be leaving behind the main business of embellishing the article on American English. -- IHCOYC 01:01, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
"Sluggy" is offline  
post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Senior Member
 
"Sluggy"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,784
                     
We got you surrounded, come out with your hands up, When you are ready speak American English!
"Sluggy" is offline  
post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Spunky83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: D´dorf
Posts: 10,846
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthwillout
Actually the real contender for lingua franca in the future may be Spanish. Now there are more Spanish speakers than English speakers in the world. For those interested in languages get a load of this
1) Over the last 30 years thousands of languages have died out.
2) Yesterday, the last speaker of the only oral language spoken by women only died in Africa she was 92.
3) There are still about 3000 languages spoken across the planet today. In 20 years' time at least half of them will be extinct.
4) In North and South America alone hundreds of native American languages have disappeared since the war and those which are left are slated to go the same way
5) Some linguists think that if things go on at this rate, one century from now there might only be a score of languages left on the planet (among which Chinese, Hindi, Spanish, English, Arabic, Portuguese)
Each language which dies out is an irremediable loss. Languages are part of the human heritage just like monuments and art
As a cultural studies student, I love your last sentence...God, we seem to have similar personalities, but you are definetly better educated than me. What are you, a college professor or something?

Being a chinese myself, I wouldn´t mind if chinese became the world language number one

Riding the 3AM Rollercoaster

Visit: Anastasia-Myskina.com
Inside-Tennis.net
Justine - Nastya - Ana


M-A2R0T0I6N-A
Spunky83 is offline  
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 01:24 PM
Senior Member
 
"Sluggy"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,784
                     
Ok.
"Sluggy" is offline  
post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 768
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunky83
As a cultural studies student, I love your last sentence...God, we seem to have similar personalities, but you are definetly better educated than me. What are you, a college professor or something?

Being a chinese myself, I wouldn´t mind if chinese became the world language number one
I've told you before, Spunky83, we are Plato's wandering halves waiting to meet again

undefined
Please come back in top condition, J... I miss you very badly
Truthwillout is offline  
post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 02:09 PM
I love Jelica!
 
Epigone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the fields of Hyrule
Posts: 34,207
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by bee
Chinese is actually a very difficult language to learn... compared to English..
I think that Chinese is actually quite easy to learn. To become proficient at writing may take some time, but I think that things like grammatical structures are very easy to pick up, so speaking is easy if you can remember the tones.

Звонарёва ~ Павлюченкова
Петрова ~ Клейбанова
Сафина ~ Кириленко
Epigone is offline  
post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 3,848
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthwillout
Actually the real contender for lingua franca in the future may be Spanish. Now there are more Spanish speakers than English speakers in the world. For those interested in languages get a load of this
1) Over the last 30 years thousands of languages have died out.
2) Yesterday, the last speaker of the only oral language spoken by women only died in Africa she was 92.
3) There are still about 3000 languages spoken across the planet today. In 20 years' time at least half of them will be extinct.
4) In North and South America alone hundreds of native American languages have disappeared since the war and those which are left are slated to go the same way
5) Some linguists think that if things go on at this rate, one century from now there might only be a score of languages left on the planet (among which Chinese, Hindi, Spanish, English, Arabic, Portuguese)
Each language which dies out is an irremediable loss. Languages are part of the human heritage just like monuments and art
Lingua franca has got nothing to do with the number of people who speak it. It's all determined by the economical, political and military power of a nation.

Kim Clijsters - Meilen Tu
2ace2 is offline  
post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2004, 03:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hitlum
Posts: 8,050
                     
I don't see Chinese becoming the most spoken language, and for practical reasons.

English did not only became a "universal language" because it's the language of the two latest great powers (UK and US), but because of its simplicity.

It's a language easy to learn, the grammar is not complicated, compared to other widely spoken languages such as French or Spanish.

Chinese is a very difficult language, and not because of the grammar only, but because of the lack of an alphabet, that makes it extremely difficult to handle, and honestly I don't see how you can learn all those signs. Computer's keyboard only can have as many keys, you need to use specific software to generate special characters.

With western alphabets, and A is an A, and it's used in English, Spanish, French, Italian, portuguese, german, there are small variances but not really major.

With Chinese, a set of signs is valid only for Chinese, not for Japanese or Korean, and so on.

Think of Japan, a huge economic power, the Japanese economy is still the second in the world, and most electronic gadget come from Japan, however, widespread use of Japanese was never a reality, not even in a small scale, simply because it's too difficult and not practical.

If you look at computer programming languages, all of them are based on English. Anyone working on software will have to have some exposure to English.

I think that if the Chinese want their language to compete with English, they need to make huge changes, the first would be the adoption of an alphabet (the Koreans have done that, if I am not wrong the symbols represent letters, not words). But also, they would need to use a compatible alphabet, that's the problem with Korean, you still have to learn a whole bunch of new signs, they need an uniform set of signs.

I believe the only language with real chances of competing against English is spanish, only because besides being spoken by a lot of people (and widely used in the US), it compensates for its complex grammar by being a phonetic language, an "e" is an "e" and it's always pronouce the same way, once you learn 24 or so basic sounds you are done with pronunciation.

But because of the wide use of English in computer software, business etc. I don't see Spanish taking over, only becoming more important.
Fingon is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome