Peace without Yasser Arafat: an easier path? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
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Peace without Yasser Arafat: an easier path?

Roger Hardy, The BBC Middle East analyst, thinks so, as revealed in this piece of information about Arafat's possible successor:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/...es/1362216.stm

note that most of the candidates considered are deemed as moderate or have had prior relations with Israel. There will certainly be a power struggle even though the Palestinian authorities are working hard for a smooth handover.
Palestinian officials told The Jerusalem Post that they expect the Palestinian Authority to improve with new leadership and the Israeli-Palestinian peace process has better chances of success after PA Chairman Yasser Arafat.

Is Arafat such a powerful icon for both sides that his mere presence is enough to hinder any possibility of peaceful co-existance? or peace is still a far-fetched dream that won't get any closer should he pass away?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 12:55 PM
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I don't know if peace without Arafat will be easier path or not. I think it depends on a few things.
Who will be in charge of the Palestinian Authority?
This is the matter of trust they need a leader who will untied palestinians and yet trusted by not just the Palestinian but also Isrealis. So a moderate leader is a must. This is a tall order and it will be very difficult as a results of the Interfide the trust between sides are in the bottom low. So it will be very difficult indeed.
Any in fighting within the Palestinian groups?
You have remember that there are many groups within the Palestinian politics not just the Authoirty (PLO) and Islamic groups.
What the Islamic groups like Hamas will do?
The Authority has to control these groups and keep them quiet. Arafat did that O.K. (I have to said is not perfect.) till Sharon for personally reason push him into the corner and as the result of that these groups let loose and you know what happened since them. The fear is that they will throwing bombs (like they always done.) in order to gain power themselves (Like they always wants to do) rather them untied with the rest of the Palestinian politcial groups.
There are also a Isreali questions as well but at the moment but I'm have to go now. Anyway it will be uncertain times for the Palestinians for sure. The hope is that they elected a moderate leader who can untied the Palestinians group and keep the Islamist quite. However we have to wait and see.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 04:21 PM
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I don't think peace will be any easier to achieve without Arafat, b/c such claim assumes that the present hinderance to peace are the Palestinians/Arafat. It seems to me the opposite is true. It will change the dynamic but as long as the Israelis don't agree to a sustainable, 'truly' free Palestine, I don't think there will be any change.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 05:08 PM
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There is no such thing as peace to these people. Even if everything is resolved they'll still blow themselves up for fun. Let's all take note however that a Belgian started this thread.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubin
There is no such thing as peace to these people. Even if everything is resolved they'll still blow themselves up for fun. Let's all take note however that a Belgian started this thread.
Your contibution to this discussion is really thought through
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tfannis
Your contibution to this discussion is really thought through
I'm just trying to make a point that even if Yasser Arafat is replaced there will be no peace because these people don't want peace. They just want to blow themselves up because apparently when you blow up an Israeli or a Jew you go to heaven.

I'm also trying to make a corolation(sp?) that whenever there is an anti-Jewish/Isreali it's always started by a Belgium. Even if it isn't controversial Belgians seem to care so god damn much when it doesn't even concern them.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2004, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubin
I'm just trying to make a point that even if Yasser Arafat is replaced there will be no peace because these people don't want peace. They just want to blow themselves up because apparently when you blow up an Israeli or a Jew you go to heaven.

I'm also trying to make a corolation(sp?) that whenever there is an anti-Jewish/Isreali it's always started by a Belgium. Even if it isn't controversial Belgians seem to care so god damn much when it doesn't even concern them.
Nothing has changed really....Your contibution to this discussion is really thought through

For starters...did you notice there is nothing anti-semite about Monique's post? In fact it's a very interesting question.
But you probably just saw it as an oppurtunity to insult Palestines and Belgians Good for you
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2004, 03:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubin
I'm just trying to make a point that even if Yasser Arafat is replaced there will be no peace because these people don't want peace. They just want to blow themselves up because apparently when you blow up an Israeli or a Jew you go to heaven.

I'm also trying to make a corolation(sp?) that whenever there is an anti-Jewish/Isreali it's always started by a Belgium. Even if it isn't controversial Belgians seem to care so god damn much when it doesn't even concern them.
thanks for the bit on what concerns us or not ... you have such a clear understanding of the ways we, Belgians, operate and think, that it was silly of me to try to pose a question that demands a well thought response on which you apparently are not willing to offer...
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2004, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubin
I'm just trying to make a point that even if Yasser Arafat is replaced there will be no peace because these people don't want peace. They just want to blow themselves up because apparently when you blow up an Israeli or a Jew you go to heaven.

I'm also trying to make a corolation(sp?) that whenever there is an anti-Jewish/Isreali it's always started by a Belgium. Even if it isn't controversial Belgians seem to care so god damn much when it doesn't even concern them.
Blame the Beligians or maybe they are just more willing to talk about sensitive political issues.

Who does it concern? You do not have to be there to have an opinion on it!!
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2004, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Psychon
It will change the dynamic but as long as the Israelis don't agree to a sustainable, 'truly' free Palestine, I don't think there will be any change.
ummm, moron. Israel offered that to the Palestinians years ago. Arafat rejected it.

How fucking stupid are you psychon? seriously and you talk about americans.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2004, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Justeenium
ummm, moron. Israel offered that to the Palestinians years ago. Arafat rejected it.
sustainable Palestinian State = a state which is not broken into pieces by Israeli settlements and roadblocks. Without the complete withdrawal of those artificial Israeli barriers from West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza, there wouldn't be any contigious Palestinian state. Can you imagine a state where, if it's citizens drive from one province, say WB, to another, say Gaza, they have to pass through barriers, and outside military checkpoints? How is that kind of state sustainable?

Sustainable Palestinian State = a state not crippled by the thousands of Palestinian refugees that are kicked out of Israel and are now living in squalid conditions in refugee camps. The Israeli government never agreed to the "right of return" of those refugees to their properties in Israel or the appropriate recompensation for their lost property, thereby, enabling a Palestinian state not to be crippled by the refugee problem.

Truly free state = a state where the Palestinians control all their country, be it in terms of airspace, borders and ports. Israelis never offered to give a Palestian state complete independence. They still insist on complete control of the Palestian's airspace, ports and borders with its neighbours, for example the border with Egypt. Now, how is that a truly free state?

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How fucking stupid are you psychon? seriously and you talk about americans.
I don't ever remember accusing Americans of being stupid. I might have accused them of being too sure of their knowledge about the whole world, which is sometimes worse than stupidity. Because, in that case, you tend not to want to learn more about the world or other viewpoints because you "already know it" and because you already "possess the truth". But, even if you are stupid, there is stil some hope for you as long as you acknowledge that fact and ready to rectify your stupidity.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2004, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justeenium
ummm, moron. Israel offered that to the Palestinians years ago. Arafat rejected it.

How fucking stupid are you psychon? seriously and you talk about americans.
BTW, why don't you discuss anymore in the other thread?
Out of arguments? Should I claim that some people in that thread "own you", as you like to say to other posters?

...
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2004, 10:10 AM
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Interesting question. Personally, I never believe peace was possible with Arafat and Sharon in power so I do think that with him gone, it'll be easier.
Arafat managed to bring attention to the Palestine case, that's a good thing. What he failed to do was to build a proper Palastine state, he always seemed more interested in driving the Israelis out rather than doing something constructive as building a state in which his people could live decently.
Also, I generally distrust leaders who have a lot of personal wealth while their own people live in poverty.
The Palestinians need a future, need opportinities, when they've got something to live for, they're not going to be as tempted to blow themselves up on busses. The thing is that Arafat is at fault too, for failing to provide his people with a future. It's too easy to blame it all on Israel (they're certainly not entirely blameless, don't get me started on the settlements). In the end, Israel certainly isn't against having a well governed Palestine as neighbour. Israel can't built this state for them, they must do everything they can to make it possible (like giving back the settlements for starters and giving them complete indepence like Psychon said), but in the end the Palestinians have to do it. Let's hope the next leader takes more interest in this rather than in vengeance.

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Last edited by gentenaire; Nov 7th, 2004 at 10:40 AM.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 8th, 2004, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychon
sustainable Palestinian State = a state which is not broken into pieces by Israeli settlements and roadblocks. Without the complete withdrawal of those artificial Israeli barriers from West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza, there wouldn't be any contigious Palestinian state. Can you imagine a state where, if it's citizens drive from one province, say WB, to another, say Gaza, they have to pass through barriers, and outside military checkpoints? How is that kind of state sustainable?
bullshit, in 2000 they were proposed everything except the return of ALL refugees (which is logical because if they'd agree to it Isreal would just disappear)

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Nov 8th, 2004, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by gentenaire
Interesting question. Personally, I never believe peace was possible with Arafat and Sharon in power so I do think that with him gone, it'll be easier.
Arafat managed to bring attention to the Palestine case, that's a good thing. What he failed to do was to build a proper Palastine state, he always seemed more interested in driving the Israelis out rather than doing something constructive as building a state in which his people could live decently.
Also, I generally distrust leaders who have a lot of personal wealth while their own people live in poverty.
The Palestinians need a future, need opportinities, when they've got something to live for, they're not going to be as tempted to blow themselves up on busses. The thing is that Arafat is at fault too, for failing to provide his people with a future. It's too easy to blame it all on Israel (they're certainly not entirely blameless, don't get me started on the settlements). In the end, Israel certainly isn't against having a well governed Palestine as neighbour. Israel can't built this state for them, they must do everything they can to make it possible (like giving back the settlements for starters and giving them complete indepence like Psychon said), but in the end the Palestinians have to do it. Let's hope the next leader takes more interest in this rather than in vengeance.
this is what I wanted to post but was too lazy to

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