I don't think Europeans understand that US comes from a different religious tradition - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think Europeans understand that US comes from a different religious tradition

It seems to me that a majority of Europeans don't understand how Bush can be supported for his intolerance to homosexual rights, abortion, etc. Will he actually represents the traditional view of America.

Although Puritans (Pilgrims) actually consisted of only a minority of the original settlers, their views became the underlying beliefs of Americans. There is, to be sure, a duplicity in American society, one that believes in religion as the glue to community (in 'God We Trust') and the other that religion must remain outside of politics. In fact, most of the Founding Fathers (Franklin, Jefferson, et al) were not very religious, and feared the uneducated populous, a reason that there is a separation of Church and State.

This duplicity remains inbredded in the society to this day. For the most part, families in the South and MidWest go to church every Sunday, and believe that the Christian God is the only reality.

It is *not* just religious fundamentalists that are anti-homosexuality and anti-abortion. Bush is not a relgious fundamentalist. Many people just feel that, based on how they were raised, they cannot reconcile these acts with their beliefs.

In the US, you will *not* see a woman's breast on a commercial for shampoo, or on the front of a fashion magazine. Victoria's Secret's fashion show was just banned from the airwaves do to viewer complaints.

We had problems with the naked "statues" on display in the Olympic Opening Ceremonies.

So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?

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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 08:39 PM
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Serbia and Montenegro here

1. Not at all. I don't remember the last time I have been to church.
2. Yes, unfortunately there is, and it seems to be growing at the moment.
3. Abortion is a reality here, we have an extremely high rate of abortions and it is completely legal. However, homosexuality is still a huge taboo and most people see it as something invented in the USA.

Last edited by Joana; Nov 1st, 2004 at 08:56 PM.
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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 08:45 PM
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(Germany)

1. Only on Christmas. So it was more or less a farce.
2. Not really as far as I know.
3. They are not hot topics day in day out, but they are definitely important issues. They aren't seen as "American" though.
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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoDominique
(Germany)

1. Only on Christmas. So it was more or less a farce.
2. Not really as far as I know.
3. They are not hot topics day in day out, but they are definitely important issues. They aren't seen as "American" though.
Yeah...what is it with American (third question)? I didn´t get it. Of course I get that America has a very deep connection to their roots and religion and I really do appreciate it, I also appreciate it that Americans are patriotic and love their country. Why not? You have archieved so many great things.

I also don´t care about that women in turkey have to cover their head because of religious beliefs or whatever. It is just that this election concerns the whole world. That´s why there´s such an intense discussion about everything which Bush has to offer or not has to offer. Well...we see!!!
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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:03 PM
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It doesn't matter if the underlying foundation of American values stemes from Buddhism. Those values should not in anyway affect the decisions being made in a political forum.
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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:13 PM
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1) last time I wanted to got to church and I did was Eastern 1983. Afterwards only forced by funerals ... (since then I decided that nature is my only 'God' and all I can see or feel). I am glad to be atheistic. But my intentions are only the best !
2) No. Just more or less believing in God and love.
3) homosexuality and abortion is nothing American. Do you think that's something like Aids we got from you ?????? I hope it'll never be something American when I see the development in the US to punish it by social separation. Women should decide by their own conscience til the 3rd month. Gays should live together wherever they want and even raise children if they want. Gay marriage is accepted in my family as something legal.

Is all this somehow anti-Christian to you ?

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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half
It doesn't matter if the underlying foundation of American values stemes from Buddhism. Those values should not in anyway affect the decisions being made in a political forum.
But they do. That's what the point of the thread is.

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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:25 PM
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3) = That's what I learned from the history of my own country ...

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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:34 PM
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Maybe you don't understand though...BUSH IS AN IDIOT and I'm not clouded by these so called 'EUROPEAN' values...
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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniDoki-addict
1) last time I wanted to got to church and I did was Eastern 1983. Afterwards only forced by funerals ... (since then I decided that nature is my only 'God' and all I can see or feel). I am glad to be atheistic. But my intentions are only the best !
2) No. Just more or less believing in God and love.
3) homosexuality and abortion is nothing American. Do you think that's something like Aids we got from you ?????? I hope it'll never be something American when I see the development in the US to punish it by social separation. Women should decide by their own conscience til the 3rd month. Gays should live together wherever they want and even raise children if they want. Gay marriage is accepted in my family as something legal.

Is all this somehow anti-Christian to you ?
Thanks for your thoughts

Homosexuality and gay marriage are not anti-Christian to me (although I really don't consider myself a Christian anymore, for other reasons). However, a lot of devout (and I mean non-fundamentalist) Christians were raised to believe these things were wrong (or they weren't discussed, therefore somehow wrong). There are, of course, devout Christians who have no problems with these issues, including those who happen to be gay Christians, themselves.

I would say my generation (I'm 31), was the first really not having to attend church faithfully after childhood. I don't know about your parents, but every generation from the 1700s to about 1970 went to church faithfully every Sunday.

Of course, when there was really a time of community, it revolved around church. I would say that if you are from the Midwest and South, and not raised in a big city, your community is based around going to church.

Politicians may do it now just to get votes, but be assured that the Clintons, Bushes and Kerrys all were raised in a church.

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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:42 PM
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1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
No at all...I never went to church, I never had religion courses at school. The only religious thing ever done to me was my parents getting me baptised to please my grandparents
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
I don't think so. Sometimes there are Yehova (sp?) witnesses on my doorstep, but they don't stay long
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
Abortion hasn't been a topic for many years. It's legalized and it'll stay that way
Euthanasia still is a topic, but is legalized to (complex procedure though).
Gay marriages are legalized, and not that much of a topic anymore. Adoption by gay couples is still a problem though
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubin
Maybe you don't understand though...BUSH IS AN IDIOT and I'm not clouded by these so called 'EUROPEAN' values...
That may be but when he says his idol is "Jesus Christ, because he is my personal savior", he has a bloc of votes locked up that Kerry does not.

Kerry is also pro-choice, pro-"gay" and that turns a lot of people off (well, since it's in the Democratic platform, that also turns a lot of people off).

Also, if people who are voting for Kerry or are undecided, knew that Kerry's grandfather was a Jew who converted, they'd probably swing the other way.

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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:49 PM
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1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
(UK)
1. i've went to church when i was wrong but my parents gave me the choice on whether i wanted to continue going
2. religious fundamentalism? not particularly where i live. my hometown is more than cool.
3. abortion is accepted here. gay marriage isn't as massive a "taboo" as in the USA, where i live is relatively "western european" about it...people aren't all for it, but are more liberal in their thinking than most places in the US and rest of UK
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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There was a very interesting "reality" special on PBS last spring called "Colonial House." It took a group of 21st century people and put them in the woods with three cabins as if it were 1690s.

They *had* to go to church. If they didn't, well- it was just unheard of. You have to be a witch or a heathen (Indian) not to go to church.

On the show, the town minister was boring, and put everyone to sleep. Some folks decided to rebel, and swim naked in the river They were punished, though.

Soon the mayor (who in real life was a fundamentalist minister who was a nice guy, tolerated the one lone gay man, but still said it wasn't right) had to make a law forcing everyone to go to church, or they'd end up with a scarlett letter on their clothes. That still didn't work, and he just gave up.

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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 2004, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubin
Maybe you don't understand though...BUSH IS AN IDIOT and I'm not clouded by these so called 'EUROPEAN' values...
How many red dotties have you already received for this comment? Oh man, this election is really rippin us apart people!!!

Goooo Kerry
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