Poll for NON-Americans - TennisForum.com

View Poll Results: America: Zealous; Arrogant; Believes Americans are better than everybody else
Yes 85 81.73%
No 19 18.27%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 03:37 AM Thread Starter
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Poll for NON-Americans

Words from an American

“We have become a zealous, arrogant and deeply racist country. Not the traditional black-white racism of our respective youth but one that has elevated ‘American’ to a race that is above all others.”

The above quote appears in the following article
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4900136/, ostensibly from a 'professional ... at senior levels in the American government'. Professional meaning as distinct form a political appointee. It's an unnamed source, so it's suspect.

My question is, is that how non-Americans view the United States?

To, me this is important. I want to see the targeting of civilians as a form of warfare ended. The United States can't do that by itself. And the rest of the world can't do it without us. We won't wind up working together if that's what you believe we are. I understand that I'm only giving two choices in a world where 90% of it is a grey area in the middle. That's deliberate.

I would like to restrict this poll to non-Americans. In practice, I doubt that wil happen because I expect a lot of Americans to vote, and to vote that we're not racist. Howeverm I still ask that Americans refrain from voting. We nned to see how our brothers and sisters view us.

To those of you who are tired of 'liberal whining, etc, etc.' Tell me how we're going to win the War on Terror without help from the rest of the world.

You call it liberal.
I call it pragmatic.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.

Last edited by Volcana; May 9th, 2004 at 03:42 AM.
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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 03:40 AM
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wheres Poll?

fuck.
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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 03:40 AM
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Yay 100%

This is not all Americans .. but alot

fuck.
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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 03:50 AM
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Yes all 99.8% of them this exclues Mandy and DD
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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 04:00 AM
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i really think im about done with this website. Its sickening how much hatred their is for americans and everyone making these statements are just plain ignorant.
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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 04:03 AM
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The way the poll is actually worded I probably should have voted yes. But I don't think this is really about racism, which seems to be what Volcana is getting at from the first post, so I voted "no". I don't think Americans are especially racist.

All groups of warriors in history have been trained to dehumanize the enemy, not necessarily on racial grounds. I think that modern American soldiers are probably less like this than most in history, or in the current world

The point is, nations such as America should not adopt that ethos at all. They need to adopt the most humane possible approach to warfare (including the treatment of prisoners) both because that is good in itself and because it means that America can get at least some moral high ground. It is difficult to motivate people to fight without resorting to this kind of dehumanisation, but it just has to be done.

Not that we (meaning America and its allies, one of which is my own country) should have launched this particular war in the first place. But that is another story. Some of America's military actions really are justified, and they must not be tainted in this way.

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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *~ The Leopard ~*
The way the poll is actually worded I probably should have voted yes. But I don't think this is really about racism, which seems to be what Volcana is getting at from the first post, so I voted "no". I don't think Americans are especially racist.
Thanks Leop. The article defined 'racist' in that particular way. As if 'Americans' were a race. It's not the normal usage, but it was very surprising to me to hear an American use that construction. A 'racism' that transcends 'race', as it were.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njguido11
i really think im about done with this website. Its sickening how much hatred their is for americans and everyone making these statements are just plain ignorant.
If you polled all the people around youand asked if you were 'purple', and they voted 85% yes, yet you had never, ever though of yourself as a purple person, would you conclude they were all assholes? Or would you at least consider that maybe you had more purple in you than you thought?

I had a boss who used to say, "when you run into the 17th asshole of the day, it's time to look in the mirror."

By and large, the people on this website don't hate America or Americans.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 04:54 AM
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Yes, many of them think that they are better than everybody else.. But.. Looking at how dominant and influential this country is in the modern world I would think that they might have a case.. As well as I would attribute a serious share of other people disliking America to jealousy about that influence, wealth and power.

Nobody's perfect.

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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 05:14 AM
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You only hear about the Americans who have this mentality because it is what makes good news. I know that "most" Americans are not like this! I do not think I am better than anyone else just because I am from America. Its just not true. National pride is one thing, but "zealous, arrogant" is just not true for MOST Americans.
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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 06:09 AM
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in my exprience as an non american living in america, its not that most middle of the road americans are "Arrognant" its that they are proudly ignorant. allowing themselves to believe everything they see in the news, ignore commonsense and rational, in favor of some wierd poorly formulated idea of the "american way/dream".

are all americans like this?
no.
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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 07:01 AM
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I can't say it's true for all of the american people, that wouldn't be fair, but their president certainly fits the category and I am afraid he's changing world's history in a very very bad way as we speak

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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 09:13 AM
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I probably should've voted "Yes" but I went with "No" because of the word "zealous". That implies to me a radicalism that is in marked excess to that of others, and I don't think that's the case when it comes to American "nationalism".

...And nationalism is what I think you're getting at here. I think nationalism is (almost always) a stupid and dangerous thing. Americans are nationalistic, but so are people around the world. I actually think America is NOT one of the most nationalistic countries on earth; I don't think it holds a candle to many countries where nationality and race are interchangeable. There is a very strong strain of anti-nationalism in the U.S. (exhibit one: Volcana ), which isn't the case in most places.

...And yes people "hate" America, but only because it's #1; people hate America like Americans hate New York.
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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 11:34 AM
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I've made many American friends via the internet (and before that, youth exchanges), they're not zealous, arrogant and racist at all. I've found Americans to be very open, extremely nice, and very easy to get along with.

However.....that is NOT the message you're sending out to the world. I've come to make a difference between the Americans I know and Americans 'in general', how I see them from how the US is portraying itself:

1. God Bless America! (and f*** everyone else). Every time I hear that sentence, I shudder. What makes America so much better that America should be the 'blessed' place and not the rest of the world?
2. We're the greatest country on earth. By saying that, you make people focus on all the bad things. You don't expect others to say, "yeah, you're the greatest", do you? Of course people will counter that statement by pointing out all the bad things about America.
American nationalism comes across as gloating. And when you stick out your tongue at others, "nana, we won!", then you can hardly call the negative feelings other have towards you as unfounded. All that flag waving, singing the national anthem at every turn, that pledge of allegiance thingie in schools, you can hardly call that humble, can you? What I've noticed is that to many Americans these things are so normal, that they presume it's like that everywhere else in the world. I remember the reaction of an American to the question of a Belgian journalist about the American flag in his garden, "well, I have an American flag in my garden, just like you surely have a Belgian flag in your garden." Erh, no, we don't. We don't have little Belgian flags waving on the roof of our cars, we don't have Belgian flags in our front yard. We hardly know our national anthem, the word Belgium and God are never uttered in the same sentence. When we first visited the US, we wanted to go to church on Sunday. We entered a church, the first things we heard was people singing "America America", we left right away. To the outside world, Amercian nationalism is considered very extreme and arrogant. Judging by the reaction of Americans I know, they don't see it as arrogant at all, because it's because it's become so normal. So in a sense, Americans don't mean to be arrogant, but they do come across as such. Part of the reason is probably that it's not balanced by a healthy dosis of self-humour and self-criticism. People don't mind Australian or British nationalism as much, because they're able to laugh at themselves. E.g. the difference between the reaction of the American relay swimming team after they won gold at the olympics vs. the Australian skater who unexpectedly won gold. That's what the world sees.
We're being bombarded with American movies that portray the Americans as the goodies who're going to save the world and other nationalities as baddies. Just think of the number of films in which the Brits are stereotyped as stuck-up aristrocrats who have no life, who never laugh, until a free-spirited American comes along and changes all that Then there's one film where it's the other way around (Love Actually) and I hear all these people cry that the film is Anti-American.

3. the foreign policies of the US. International laws seem to apply to everyone except for the US. The US is lecturing the world about allowing free trade, yet as soon as the steel industry isn't going too well, the US turns out to be just as protectionist as the rest. We all make mistakes, confessing to making them is the hardest bit of all, but oh so important. Because the US refuses to admit to past mistakes, we're not convinced the same mistakes won't be made again. I realise that in the American press, amongst American people, there is a lot of criticism and those issues are being adressed, what's officially relayed to the world is always without criticism, always firm, "we're right, you were wrong."

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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2004, 11:49 AM
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It is pathetic to ask if America is racist. Sure there are racist elements, there are also so many people that are not at all racist. As far as arrogance, I think given some of the insults that are thrown at us, it pricks our egos and then our arrogant tendencies come out. What is also pathetic is that with all the criticsm dished out against us, we are the country to which so many foreigners seek to come to make a living and life for their children. So if you hate us so much why you coming? Also, i have spoken to so many immigrants to America and they always say they love it here. So many people have lived the American dream from your countries of origin, manage to find homes, jobs and frequently send money home so their relatives kind eat, read, have tvs, etc. Why dont you people who think were racist, arrogant, homophobic, etc. come and see that the United States for yourselves. It is soooo large and varied and has so many different types of communities and lifestyles that to generalize us as racist stupid arrogant etc., is really just plain dumb. Its a great place with arguably the kindest people around. Its not the best place in the world to live, but id venture to say that you get something for everyone, mountains, hills, plains, oceans, deserts rivers, tropical environments. check it out!
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