Tennis Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 8

254K views 5K replies 91 participants last post by  goldenlox 
#1 ·
Last thread went past 5000 posts

Caroline loses to Schmiedlova in Wuhan after being up 61 41

I can understand why she's still playing. These are important tournaments. But not if you lose early.
I expect she'll still play Beijing and maybe the elite tournament.
This year was a huge step back from last summer, when she had that post Rory surge.
I think she has to have a sports doctor study her knee this offseason and work hard on her serve. Even 3% improvement in her serves in 2016 will help. It looks mental to me. A lot of her first serves look bad, like she's not focused. She has to treat each serve as important
 
#2 ·
Last thread went past 5000 posts

Caroline loses to Schmiedlova in Wuhan after being up 61 41

I can understand why she's still playing. These are important tournaments. But not if you lose early.
I expect she'll still play Beijing and maybe the elite tournament.
This year was a huge step back from last summer, when she had that post Rory surge.
I think she has to have a sports doctor study her knee this offseason and work hard on her serve. Even 3% improvement in her serves in 2016 will help. It looks mental to me. A lot of her first serves look bad, like she's not focused. She has to treat each serve as important
the elite tournament :spit:
Those tournaments are fucking meaningless! The goal should be getting healthy, rested and well prepared for the next season!
 
#3 ·
The goal is be ready for Melbourne, but I dont think shutting down in late September instead of Oct helps.
And remember, she made a comment after the Bencic match about being tired, so I dont think this was going to be a great week no matter what
 
#4 · (Edited)
I expect her to go to Beijing next.
But her team has to start thinking about the offseason.
How to manage her health, both in her scheduling and during off time training, and how to get her game sharper, and especially why she loses after having the lead so often.

WTA Insider ‏@WTA_insider 47 minutes ago
Caroline Wozniacki after a tough loss to Schmiedlova. Said she felt dizziness coming on in the first set.
 
#5 ·
I expect her to go to Beijing also. But I also expect her to lose her first or second match. So I don't see the point really. And "the elite tournament" or whatever they call it now is a complete waste of time. I think it would be better to do absolutely nothing for at least about a month. Give her body time to heal and recover. For that knee she could in the future perhaps play with a brace like Kirilenko did.

We can discuss her second serve, that forehand, her volleys - even her relative lack of footspeed compared to the days of old. But her biggest problem by far is what's going on between the ears. In 2009-2011 we all knew she would win if she was involved in a close match. Now we expect her to lose. In fact, she's even giving away huge leads on a regular basis to end up losing in the end. That has little to do with the intrinsic quality of her shots but is simply the result of choking, a lack of concentration and the choices she makes and/or doesn't make at the business end of sets and matches. I have no idea how to fix that, but getting 100% healthy would be a good start.
 
#10 ·
Coming off a US Open final & YEC SF, this maybe was her worst year in a long time.
But she has to look at it as a minor setback. She's too young and too talented to stop trying to get her game back.
She really needs to work on her serve and get to majors ready to play, physically & mentally
Maybe schedule differently if she's not in the top 10
 
#18 ·
Caro is an old 25 with all the matches she's played in her career plus her style of play. :shrug:

I doubt Caro's schedule will change much if she ends the year outside the top 10 (which is almost certainly going to happen). I think she might change 1 tournament, maybe 2, but the rest will stay the same. :shrug: Caro will tell herself that she's still really a top player, just maybe a bit unlucky this year. :shrug:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nottheone
#11 ·
Caro :bigwave: :spit: I don't know if I should cry or laugh. Well done losing to AKS, it definitely isn't easy after being 6-1 4-1 up :bowdown: She really must be an amazing player and I'm sure people in GM are really happy for her and turned fans for one day.
Great return to lose the 2nd set as well :yeah:
Well, I don't know anymore. Were you anticipating this situation earlier in the year, Caro?



What was the injury today? Knee and thigh?
I don't know why is she playing. Her year has been horrible in big tournaments. Her best result in a relevant tournament this year has been a QF in Madrid and a SF in Dubai. The rest was a bunch of R2, one R3 and one R4. :worship:
Keep playing this season, you're obviously going to do great until the end of the year by playing three weeks in a row. And you're really helping yourself for the next season. :yeah:

That Jimmie in GM :help:
Lmao. Shouldn't he be worried with his overweight fave :confused:
 
#14 ·
Caro :bigwave: :spit: I don't know if I should cry or laugh. Well done losing to AKS, it definitely isn't easy after being 6-1 4-1 up :bowdown: She really must be an amazing player and I'm sure people in GM are really happy for her and turned fans for one day.
Great return to lose the 2nd set as well :yeah:
Well, I don't know anymore. Were you anticipating this situation earlier in the year, Caro?



What was the injury today? Knee and thigh?
I don't know why is she playing. Her year has been horrible in big tournaments. Her best result in a relevant tournament this year has been a QF in Madrid and a SF in Dubai. The rest was a bunch of R2, one R3 and one R4. :worship:
Keep playing this season, you're obviously going to do great until the end of the year by playing three weeks in a row. And you're really helping yourself for the next season. :yeah:


Lmao. Shouldn't he be worried with his overweight fave :confused:
Knee was holding up today :lol: She felt dizzy, also got her thigh taped during the second MTO! But no excuses for losing it after being up 6-1 4-1, even in the third set she had plenty of chances! But she was not herself today, and acted like a bitch at the times :D as match went on her shots got weaker and movement worse!
I don't think Jimmy care about Guest anymore, he is stanning for Shara now but she has not been doing well lately, so he better start looking for a new fave! :lol:
 
#12 ·
Also, keep running marathons while you're an active tennis player! :bigwave: You really couldn't have waited a few years, huh? :rolleyes:
 
#13 ·
I dont think winning today would have changed much
Even with Serena, Maria, Bencic, Vika not in the draw, there are still plenty of good players and if she's dizzy, she might as well have the rest of the week off.
I wonder what her year end ranking will be for 2015.
She could have some tough draws in 2016 if she's in the 12-24 range in ranking
 
#15 ·
I dont think winning today would have changed much
Even with Serena, Maria, Bencic, Vika not in the draw, there are still plenty of good players and if she's dizzy, she might as well have the rest of the week off.
I wonder what her year end ranking will be for 2015.
She could have some tough draws in 2016 if she's in the 12-24 range in ranking

What's the point? This year she had some bad draws as well. And also had some good ones and fucked it up :shrug: So it's just a matter if she's playing well or not. Obviously you would prefer to play someone easier in the first rounds, like AKS Brengle, but she can't be always with a good ranking without doing nothing. This year she's out of top 10, no doubt. But maybe (if she manages to stay healthy) she'll do better because she has an extra motivation: be back in top 10.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chrissie-fan
#19 ·
I dont know if she's an old 25. Last week was the first time I read her saying a long match wore her out. Maybe she wasn't feeling good after the Kerber match and its still there.
But she can look at Pennetta & Vinci playing in the US Open final.
If you're ready and fight hard and the draw breaks right, the impossible happens.
This year was a mess because she lost to Georges & Cetkovska at majors.
Everything else isnt that terrible. The worst besides the slam losses was not closing Stuttgart, and thats no big deal.
 
#20 ·
Singles matches played as of the end 0f 2014:

Pennetta: 900, turned 32 that year
Vinci: 820, turned 31 that year
Serena: 804, turned 33 that year


Pennetta and Vinci were both having fairly mediocre seasons before this year's US Open, with both being outside of the top 35 in the singles YEC race.

After Caro's match against Schmiedlova in the 2nd round of Wuhan, Caro has played 56 singles matches this year and 661 singles matches in her career. Here are some projections of the # of singles matches she will have played by the end of 2020 (counting the 2nd round of Wuhan against Schmiedlova as her last match of this year):

Caro with an average of 55 singles matches played per year: 936, turned 30 that year
Caro with an average of 60 singles matches played per year: 961, turned 30 that year
Caro with an average of 65 singles matches played per year: 986, turned 30 that year
Caro with an average of 70 singles matches played per year: 1011, turned 30 that year
Caro with an average of 75 singles matches played per year: 1036, turned 30 that year
Caro with an average of 80 singles matches played per year: 1061, turned 30 that year


Considering that Caro hasn't won a premier or greater tournament since Moscow in 2012, I'd say it was a pretty big deal that she couldn't close out the Stuttgart final.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nottheone
#23 ·
Caro's record against some of the WTA Rising Stars:
vs Bencic: 1-4
vs Muguruza: 1-4
vs Schmiedlova: 0-1
vs Bouchard: 0-1
 
#24 ·
I dont think her body falling apart at 25 is the problem.
She just beat Kerber. I thought she might win Tokyo.
This match is a whole different case. She had a big lead and said she was dizzy.

I think after the elite tournament she should take a full 2 weeks off and let her body totally recover. But she will probably run every day the whole off season

Once she lost in NY, the rest of the year is just compiling points. No chance at Singapore now, these last few matches are to save her ranking for 2016
 
#26 ·
She was also only 2 points from winning? :happy:
I mean, when Caro is playing like this it doesn't matter how good the draw is. It is what it is.
I also can't at her hitting FH slices during rallies :happy:
Well, now she has an entire week to rest and practise for Beijing, so she can successfully reach the final there. :shrug: If eventually that doesn't happen (and everything points to it, because last year she did well in Tokyo and Wuhan and then was tired for Beijing and this year it's the opposite) I hope she doesn't play any other tournament for the rest of the year. No point in playing Linz and Moscow (because her chances to Singapore would literally be 0) and also the other YEC, which for me it's just a waste of time and effort.
 
#27 ·
In set 2 she was serving 61 42 ad-in, so she was one point on her serve from 61 52
But lost that point, then df, then lost another point. Then broken at 4-4 with a df on the break point.
So its the same story as the whole year.
From 61 42 ad-in, you have to close the match. That is when you have to serve well and play well
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nottheone
#29 ·
After sleeping on it, I think I understand why Caro pretty much ran out of gas in the middle of the match. Rennae Stubbs once said it takes much more physical and mental intensity to always be the aggressor in a tennis match. Caro was hitting the ball very well (and hard) through the first half of the match; you could audibly hear her effort.

But that doesn't come naturally to her and never will. In the third set you could see she lost so much pace on her ball, not able to put away short balls as she had been doing earlier even on the backhand side. Her forehand became some sort of mini-lob in its trajectory. :facepalm: So, it's understandable to me what happened, but as mentioned previously, Caro is fit but isn't so young anymore in tennis years. :shrug:
Since the other thread is basically done, I copied to this new one.

I'm sure it takes a lot of energy to play well behind the baseline and constantly be running too. :shrug: I've often heard commentators say that a tired or ill player needs to shorten the points.

Caro can't beat good defenders/retrievers/counterpunchers without being aggressive much of the time. She doesn't need to dictate all of the points, but she does need to dictate her fair share of them. Playing fairly passive/safe generally doesn't work for her in these types of matches.
 
#30 ·
Yes, that's true as well. No player can hold up physically by trying to defend and run every single point, but at the same time, I found that point interesting about always trying to be proactive and dictating play. You have to generate your own pace and take the ball early. That's a mental challenge for someone like Caro who still isn't comfortable doing it throughout an entire match (as this one showed). In effect I think Caro "punched herself out" because by the end, she had hardly anything on her ball and she was absolutely spent physically when in fact Schmiedlova had done most of the running for the first half of the match. :shrug:
 
#31 ·
Being tired was not the problem this match. The problem was up 61 41 and she could not hold serve. She wound up broken 7 times. This is nothing new, maybe this is a lesser opponent than Bencic or Azarenka, but mid-match on, she cant hold serve
 
#32 ·
The only "bad" part of this is we cant follow her attempt to make Simgapore after a bad loss like this at a premier 5.
But it just accentuates one of her biggest problems all year. She cannot get a good first serve in when she needs to close out a game a set or a match
Almost every good player who never won a major had the same problem..
Dementieva, Radwanska, Zvonareva, Safina, Jankovic, all very similar. When they had to hold serve, they served poorly
 
#35 ·
I believe Caroline when she said she didnt feel well
I still think at 61 41 she has to close
The sport is about winning, not putting yourself in a decent position then folding
She used to win all the time. Something like 24 of 28 matches, then 32 of 37 matches.
Now its more likely she loses 4 matches in a row than wins them
I dont think the tour got that much better since early 2011
Until she can focus on her service games and play them well, almost all of them, I dont see any changes coming.
Changes wont come from court positioning. She has to hold serve, which means her 1st serve has to go in with pace & placement and get her points.
 
#38 ·
Serena is out for the year, she wont play anymore according to danish press, so top 11 qualify for Singapore. Top 9 play the tournament, top 10-11 join the party and VIP treatment.

Could any of you statistic fans, come up with an amount of points (estimated guess) she would need to finish in top 11 before Singapore? How many wins she needs? Its depended on other players too, but there are only a handful she fights with for a spot in top 11, this would give us something to follow.
 
#37 ·
Out of the 8 premier 5 or greater hard court tournaments Caro has played so far this year, Caro has reached the quarters or better in only 1 of them: Dubai. :rolleyes:
 
#39 ·
:spit:
Expected, though. If she loses in Beijing R2 or R3, will she really play those tournaments :confused: I mean, her chances to YEC would be 0, why even bothering herself? Doesn't she want to rest and avoid more injuries? I honestly don't know what she's thinking.

Uau! Caro :worship:
 
#40 ·
If she can still make a run at Singapore, she should go for it
But nothing outside of Stuttgart looks good enough in her 2015 so far
 
#45 ·
If she can still make a run at Singapore, she should go for it
But nothing outside of Stuttgart looks good enough in her 2015 so far
Why, why, why, why, fcking whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! She would be a walking bye anyway!
Caro complains about injuries and tiredness, yet she plays tournament after tournament every damn week, and what for exactly!
All year she's been struggling with injuries but instead of giving her body rest and thinking about the next season, she keeps playing this season when she has nothing to gain anymore besides money of course! :eek:
 
#48 ·
I believe that Caro needs to at least make it to 3rd round of Beijing in order to have a shot at making it to the YEC as an alternate. I think that even if she won Linz and Moscow that still wouldn't be enough points (due to her 15th and 16th best result being 185 points and 180 points respectively) if she loses early in Beijing. :shrug:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Carofan
#49 ·
I believe that Caro needs to at least make it to 3rd round of Beijing in order to have a shot at making it to the YEC as an alternate. I think that even if she won Linz and Moscow that still wouldn't be enough points (due to her 15th and 16th best result being 185 points and 180 points respectively) if she loses early in Beijing. :shrug:
Thanks for the points breakdown. Do we know if Pennetta will show up in Singapore? Then its top 12. Sharapova is injured right now.

Maybe its the money, but I don`t think so (Caro made 15million dollars last year included sponsors). I think she more likely hunts a year end ranking. Maybe she don`t know how the ranking system and YEC system work. Or she has nothing better to do.
 
#50 ·
If Caro really plays all these tournaments she would play in 10 of 12 following weeks (only doesn't play in the 2 weeks after she lost at the US Open.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top