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Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 7

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393K views 5K replies 114 participants last post by  Julius Kugy 
#1 ·
The last volume has passed 5000 posts, time to start a new one.

 
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#2,896 ·
I honestly see a slam in the horizon if she continues her form... But I really don't want to put my hopes, if it doesn't happen

Also I really want her to win a slam to
a) shut the FUCKEN haters up
b) like Ben Rothenberg said, she is a shoe in for the Hall of Fame if she can win a slam...
 
#2,900 ·
she is a shoe in for the Hall of Fame if she can win a slam...
But until then, the shoe in is for this place :



and the celebration of the 9th place ribbon.

It is what it is and until she actually wins a slam, her whole career will be dismissed. I am not saying it is fair nor right, but it is the way her career is judged by other fans and media.
 
#2,897 ·
I don't think Caro's Grand slam history is as bad as some of you are saying.

Because I don't think it's quite fair to review her whole slam career with the assumption that a Top 10-ish player like her is supposed to reach at least QF or SF at every slam. Serena, for instance, was R4, R2, R3, Win in 2014 (13-3 W/L). Way below her expected results. The slams are played on different surfaces at different times of the season, and no slam suits each player equally well. We have to be realistic when we're assuming what Caro's supposed to do. A somewhat realistic demand is that she should reach the round according to her actual rank/seed at any particular grand slam. In 2014, Caro was supposed to lose R4 at every slam according to her actual rank/seed! This would give us a 12-4 W/L ratio. She actually went 11-4 in 2014 which is pretty close. If we use a +/- rating, we could say she was -1 in 2014 (in respect to expected result), which isn't very bad.

Likewise, in 2008, her expected W/L was 6-4, while her real W/L in fact was much better at 10-4 (which is +4 in respect to expected result). And she was beaten by top 3 players at every slam that year. She was 17 years old, ranked #64, and up against #2. Was she really supposed to win such a match? Certainly not! She's actually done better or as good as expected at the slams during some parts of her career (according to rank/seed) mainly 2007-9.

However, using rank/seed as a benchmark for what players are expected to do is still a greatly flawed system. Because such a system always favours lower ranked players! It's too complicated to go into deatil now. But it's a statistical fact that it's much more likely that an unseeded player gets a positve score than a seeded player. And a lower seeded player will always perform better according to such a system than a higher seeded player. There may be variations but statistically speaking this is true. If, for instance, we assume that the players ranked #1 & #2 are supposed to reach the finals, then we expect them to win at least 24 grand slam matches during the year - of course assuming the same players are #1 & #2 during all four slams. But Serena only won 13 GS matches this season, which is -11 (or -15 if we expect her to win all four titles), which is a worse score than Caro had in 2010 & 2011 (which were Caro's worst years in this respect beacuse she was ranked #1 during large parts of these years). But Serena won a title anyway, which is all that matters.

But technicalities aside: Yes, Caro has underperformed in her two finals (and in the USO SF against Vera). And she's underperformed in many GS matches in the earlier rounds. But sometimes her opponents have been better on the day or on the surface (like Kvitova, Lisicki, Paszek on grass; Hantuchova once on clay). And I agree with terjw: 2012 & 2013 can't be used as benchmarks for what she can or can't do at the slams. Her career longest losing streak was in 2013 when she lost 5 matches in a row to players ranked #63, 23, 36, 48, 51. She had 8 losses against players ranked outside top 50 from January 2013 until Wimbledon 2013! Since Montreal 2014, for comparison, she's lost to #1, 1, 38, 1, 10, 9, 21, & 1, while defeating 6 top 10 players during the same timespan (she only had 2 top 10 wins during the entire 2013 season).
 
#2,901 ·
Very subjective how to evaluate losing in round 3 to a good player like Giorgi or Muguruza.
But, and this is the ultimate bottom line - a player who wins over 20 titles and is #1 for so long is expected to win several majors. Everyone who was #1 as long as Caroline has won at least 3. Only Hall of Famers with more weeks at #1.
So she is a huge underachiever at slams compared to what she is doing everywhere else.
 
#2,903 ·
If Caroline won 2 or 3 majors, she has everything else. Titles, the weeks at #1, she has a full compliment of quality results.
It would be like Davenport - you can easily criticise her poor movement and how she spent so much time at #1 years after she won her last major, but the total results package is a first ballot HoFer.
Caroline with 2 majors would also be first ballot HoF.
So its important for her to play these majors well, every match, especially when she makes deep runs.
Because the 2 slam final losses and match point in a slam semi that she lost to Li Na, are still her biggest matches, all losses where she didn't play well
 
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#2,905 ·
Piotr talked about her marathon training in a live chat with Ekstra Bladet: Caro is very sensible and she knows she has to run sensibly. She has advisers who run with her so I'm not nervous. Caroline has always run a lot. She mustn't set a time for herself, that would be risky. She knows she has to be fresh for the new season. Adidas is with her, every stride she takes is weighed and measured.
 
#2,908 ·
Good to hear. I used to run a lot of city marathons myself (a dozen) and I was actually a bit concerned when I heard about her plans of running the NY Marathon. But it has turned out great without hampering her tennis so far. On the contrary. She seems to have benefitted from it. She's running for charity, and I hope she's going really easy and not aiming for any particular time. In that case it won't do her much harm. She'll be tired, she'll need a weeks rest, and it'll probably take a couple of weeks before she can practice tennis for full again.

If she goes flat out, on the other hand, trying to run like a competitive runner, then she's fu****! It's gets unbelievable hard after 20 miles or so (30 km) if your pace is too fast from the beginning. Almost to an extent where it's impossible to complete the race.
 
#2,916 ·
I agree its too easy to look at not winning a major as a negative when some tremendous players never won a major.
But she still is young & this is a very big deal for her whole life, whether she wins a major or not, as a former #1.
And some of it is out of her control. But the moments when she has the chances she has to play better than she's been doing. The way she played Serena in the US Open final is not going to beat a lot of players.
 
#2,918 · (Edited)
I think there has been a marked change in Caro's public perception in the tennis world in the last six months, even if she has not won that long-awaited major. Ben Rothenberg, who used to constantly point out Caro's single-digit winner counts and criticize her supposedly weak Grand Slam results as a world number one, now respects her and said she should be a lock for the Hall of Fame with a Grand Slam title. Courtney Nguyen was also a long-time skeptic (she once called Caro "delusional" when Caro said she can win the 2011 Australian Open) who said Caro is a candidate for Player of he Year in 2014. :lol:

Not to mention that Caro no longer gets death threats here and there isn't mass celebration when she loses (thankfully, I was not Tennis Forum then). In fact, many more people have been rooting for her since the breakup, which is nice, but of course it shows many to be hypocrites. :p Now there's talk about Caro possibly winning a hard-court Grand Slam next year, both by her fans and neutral observers. This is all very nice to see, and people no longer constantly feel the need to point out she is "slamless" (save for trolls and still-haters, and Associated Press reports that still mention it when it's not even relevant :rolleyes:). In fact, they now respect the kind of player Caro now is, the fighter that she always was, and her genuine efforts to improve her game. :yeah:
 
#2,919 ·
I think there has been a marked change in Caro's public perception in the tennis world in the last six months, even if she has not won that long-awaited major. Ben Rothenberg, who used to constantly point out Caro's single-digit winner counts and criticize her supposedly weak Grand Slam results as a world number one, now respects her and said she should be a lock for the Hall of Fame with a Grand Slam title. Courtney Nguyen was also a long-time skeptic (she once called Caro "delusional" when Caro said she can win the 2011 Australian Open) who said Caro is a candidate for Player of he Year in 2014. :lol:

Not to mention that Caro no longer gets death threats here and there isn't mass celebration when she loses (thankfully, I was not Tennis Forum then). In fact, many more people have been rooting for her since the breakup, which is nice, but of course it shows many to be hypocrites. :p Now there's talk about Caro possibly winning a hard-court Grand Slam next year, both by her fans and neutral observers. This is all very nice to see, and people no longer constantly feel the need to point out she is "slamless" (save for trolls and still-haters, and Associated Press reports that still mention it when it's not even relevant :rolleyes:). In fact, they now respect the kind player Caro now is, the fighter that she always was, and her genuine efforts to improve her game. :yeah:
You cant judge by this website :lol:
Just read the GM thread about Azarenka in 2015 :cuckoo:
 
#2,923 ·
Rankings without January-March points

Code:
1  Serena Williams        6591
2  Maria Sharapova        5985
3  Petra Kvitova          5246
4  Simona Halep           4572
5  Caroline Wozniacki     3975
6  Ana Ivanovic           3645
7  Eugenie Bouchard       3560
8  Agnieszka Radwanska    2815
9  Angelique Kerber       2125
This shows the rankings after Miami 2015 (all things being equal). I've only included the present top 9, but Makarova (possibly others) would actually be ahead of Kerber in this standing!

Nevertheless, going deep at the big tournaments is what matters in terms of rankings. Semifinals, finals and titles at Grand Slams, PM's & P5's is what has brought Serena, Sharapova, Kvitova, and Halep and where they are.
 
#2,924 ·
The first part of the year is the Aussie Open. I hope she can make a deep run there. I'm not worried about moving up the rankings, she's great at that.
 
#2,927 ·
If she's too ambitious she might run into a wall at 25km/30km. She should run the first 70% of the race very conservatively imo and if she still feels great at that point she can pick up the pace in the last 10km or so. Personally I think it's a mistake to race against the clock at all, but we know our girl. :lol:

Caro has said that she has two times in her mind. One that is very ambitious and one that is more moderate and she would like to finish the race somewhere between those two times. Let's hope that her pacemaker is an experienced runner who will temper her enthusiasm a bit if she goes out too quickly.
 
#2,928 ·
The problem is that players get injuries to their feet, ankles etc just playing tennis.
Look at Azarenka!
Caroline was fortunate to get through this year healthy and now when she should be resting, she's going to run on cement for 4 hours plus!
This could be dangerous to her career. Nerve damage in her foot might destroy Vika's career.
Why would a tennis player want to do this. If you want to raise money for charity, call Serena & arrange an exhibition match, like she's playing in IPTL
 
#2,935 ·
I'll be glad when this is over. there are plenty of articles about marathoner injuries

Sprains, Strains and Stress Fractures
In the crush of runners and walkers, or after long hours on the course, you may sprain an ankle, pull a muscle, or experience a stress fracture. Sharp, sudden, extreme pain that isn't a muscle cramp signals you to stop and signal for assistance from the course volunteers.
 
#2,938 ·
I know nothing about running or what running conditions are favorable, but I live right near NYC and it's frigid today and really raining hard. And tomorrow's supposed to be around 48 degrees farenheit and super windy. So it'll probably be around 40 or so when she starts but the wind chill will probably barely make it to 30. It doesn't seem like a great day for running. Let's hope she doesn't pull a muscle with it being so cold
 
#2,937 ·
I wish I was there - it would be really special (although my form perhaps isn't that great atm). But I'm somehow looking forward till it's over. It's offseason, but she's spending a lot of time in interviews these days. She's as present in the medias as when she was no. 1!

I hope she has a nice race tomorrow!
 
#2,948 ·
A few hours to her marathon. The best part of the YEC is that she played 4 matches in 5 days and still had a lot of energy for a long 3 setter the final day.
Going to need all her energy today!
 
#2,951 ·
Well it certainly was an interesting season for Caro. :p

From a pretty mediocre if not poor 1st half in which she was #27 in the YEC race after the French Open, she rose to #8 at the end of the season!! :)

Making another US Open final was a great accomplishment!!! :) I'm not sure which final was more surprising: this year or 2009. I kind of think 2009 as she had never made a deep run at a slam before and her results in the warmup tournaments weren't as promising as this year's.

Her 2nd half results kind of seemed to me like a hybrid of 2009 and 2010. She did pretty well at most of the summer hard court warmups like in 2010 (in 2009 it was pretty much just New Haven, but made the US Open final like in 2009. The post US Open results weren't as bad as 2009 but they weren't as good as 2010.

I think the 2nd half of this season is overall the best she's played since the mid 2010 through early 2011 period!! :) She's close to but not quite as good as that earlier period.

This is the 6th year in a row that Caro has finished inside the top 10!!! :)

This is the 7th year in a row that Caro has won a WTA singles title!!! :)

Congrats Caro on a very good season of the 2nd half and finishing inside the top 10 once again!!!!! :)
 
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#2,954 ·
Completing the NY Marathon in a very good time is obviously going to have a positive influence on Caro's self-confidence on the tennis court, but I'm actually wondering more about what it'll do to her opponents?
Let's say Caro wins first set in a 70 minutes TB or takes the match to a decider after 2+ hours. How many opponents - except for Serena - would continue to believe that they can still win a three hours slug-fest, knowing they're facing a marathoner who can just keep on running and running and running? This knowledge that it's 99% certain they're going to get tired before Caro, I think it can make many opponents lose heart or go for too much too fast in order to avoid that the match becomes a 'marathon'.
 
#2,956 ·
I am reading, she now wants to run more marathons. I don't hope playing tennis will come in the way of her marathon training (like it came in the way of her golf wagging).

While not having a psychological degree, I'd venture a guess that Caro is a rather 'obsessive' person.

That's the negative spin. The positive reads : Very committed to a cause, single minded even and very focused.
 
#2,958 ·
It could have been a disaster. So she got through it healthy. Its over.
Now she can take a vacation. Maybe she needed that because this was supposed to be her wedding month, and she needed something else big in her life.
But I dont think it will psyche out her opponents because they saw she ran a fast marathon.
She has to serve well, play big points well, close out games and close sets when January comes.
I think its an important AO, that she shows she can make a good run there.

I think there are times when its good to get away from tennis. This is one of them. After the AO is another time when she can take a few weeks off, if she wants it.
Just be ready for majors, tennis media have associated Caroline with not winning them, and you have to be there in week 2 to have any chance.
 
#2,960 ·
It was interesting looking at the full donations list. There were quite a few recognizable donations:

US Open $5,000
Your WTA Family $2,500 (with the message: "We know you will Ace this Race! Good Luck")
Danish Tennis Association $500
NSG (Nordic Sports Group) $500 (organizer of the Copenhagen WTA. Are the Wozniacki's still in the ownership?)
Novo Nordisk $2,500

We know Serena donated anonymously, Ben Rothenberg is on the list too, and someone called Stubbsy (most likely Rennae Stubbs). Plus many anonymous and unrecognizeable donations. And a lot of donations from members of Caro's forum. Well done! ½ million Danish kroner has been raised so far. For comparison, that's way higher than The Danish Tennis Association's total annual budgets for Fed Cup and Davis Cup.
 
#2,961 ·
Caroline is a guest on a tv show, if someone can get a video

We Need To Talk @WeNeedToTalk · 2 24 hours ago
Bravo! Can't wait to hear about it when you join us Tuesday MT @CaroWozniacki did I really just finish @nycmarathon in 03:26:33? Sooo proud

I'm looking forward to a strong 2015 for Caroline. Did everything this summer & fall but play her best in US Open final. One step to go.
 
#2,962 ·
I'm starting to read articles about IPTL. I put the full versions in the GM exhibitions thread.
Federer's 3 days in India Dec 6-8 sold out in 20 minutes.
 
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