Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12 - Page 184 - TennisForum.com

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #2746 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 01:45 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

I dont think it was nerves. She handled the first set well.
Her level of play dropped. It wasnt incredibly high to begin with, but it was good enough to be in position to win in 2 sets.
If she has nerves in round of 32, thats another issue that is hard to improve on.
But I dont think it was nerves. It wasnt lack of focus. it wasnt lack of motivation.
That was a weak level of tennis, when she lost 8 of the last 11 games. And I really dont know how she is going to improve. She's already working hard and her game is getting worse.

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2747 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 02:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,218
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Well if tensing up on one point and loose the next isn't nerves then I don't know what it is... Free flowing tennis perhaps?

"In time we hate that which we often fear." WS
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.” Plato
Burisleif is offline  
post #2748 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 03:52 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Its just her level of play. Not nerves. Whether its Muguruza or Pervak or Voegele or Giorgi, this level is not high enough.
The forehand is too weak. The serve, the volley. Its a level that when the forehand gets worse, its easy to beat Caroline

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
post #2749 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 04:24 PM
Senior Member
 
RU90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 9,249
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Caro seemed extremely tense in the third set (maybe nerves) and was missing routine forehands. I was surprised she was able to save a few match points.

The game at 4-5 in the second set was awful, and Caro broke herself there. I think that was the turning point, or maybe when she didn't break early in the second set.

~Keys ~Pliskova ~Kvitova ~Bencic ~Ivanovic ~Bouchard ~Putintseva ~Wozniacki ~Kovinic ~Goerges ~Watson ~Chirico ~Konjuh ~Witthoeft
RU90 is online now  
post #2750 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 04:38 PM
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,440
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its just her level of play. Not nerves. Whether its Muguruza or Pervak or Voegele or Giorgi, this level is not high enough.
The forehand is too weak. The serve, the volley. Its a level that when the forehand gets worse, its easy to beat Caroline
The forehsnd was the problem in this match - and Giorgi's level of play. Caro was never going to win the match once her forehand broke down. Those were really the two problems this match and why she lost. I think it says much for her fight that the scoreline was as close as it was considering.

To be honest I was reasonably happy with her serve in this match. Although I knew that it would get broken eventually. But she's had far more problems holding serve in many other matches than this one. And as for her volleying this match - I thought she was actually very good. She made some really difficult volleys. In fact I would love to see her volley like that in all her matches.

Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline  
post #2751 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 04:39 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by RU90 View Post
Caro seemed extremely tense in the third set (maybe nerves) and was missing routine forehands. I was surprised she was able to save a few match points.

The game at 4-5 in the second set was awful, and Caro broke herself there. I think that was the turning point, or maybe when she didn't break early in the second set.
There is no such thing as a routine Wozniacki forehand. Its her weak side anyway, but when she cant keep her returns steady and deep, its a huge weakness. She did save match points, and she did close set 1. So I dont believe its nerves.
But her whole level of play. Every aspect of her game, and how she uses her skillset... This match certainly exposed a lot of Caro's weaknesses

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
post #2752 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 05:25 PM
Senior Member
 
DownInAHole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,182
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I agree, but if she would take that risk and change her forehand will we still support her if it should all go terribly wrong? Because that's what happened when late in 2011 she started slapping forehands all over the place. Of course back then she didn't really change the grip or stuff like that. She just tried to be more agressive with it the way it was. But even if she would make some drastic changes, failure is always going to be a strong possibility. And if things go wrong we'll be the first to say that it was foolish to change. It's easier to be us than her when it comes to making such descisions. But be that as it may, yes, I think she should try. Leaving things as they are is also a risk because I don't think she'll be able to add much more to her list of achievements if she doesn't take that gamble.
I think that most of us here are with her to the end. If the second half of 2011, 2012 and, now, 2013 didn't scare us off I don't believe anything will. This is one ship that I am going down with.

Don't get on the scale if U ain't got the weight
It's more hard to love than it is to hate


Rock 'n' Roll Is Alive! (And It Lives In Minneapolis)
DownInAHole is offline  
post #2753 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 05:40 PM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,748
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I think that most of us here are with her to the end. If the second half of 2011, 2012 and, now, 2013 didn't scare us off I don't believe anything will. This is one ship that I am going down with.
Caro maniacs until the bitter end!!! Now you're talking!!! We love our girl!!!

Chrissie-fan is offline  
post #2754 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 05:47 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
The forehsnd was the problem in this match - and Giorgi's level of play. Caro was never going to win the match once her forehand broke down. Those were really the two problems this match and why she lost. I think it says much for her fight that the scoreline was as close as it was considering.

To be honest I was reasonably happy with her serve in this match. Although I knew that it would get broken eventually. But she's had far more problems holding serve in many other matches than this one. And as for her volleying this match - I thought she was actually very good. She made some really difficult volleys. In fact I would love to see her volley like that in all her matches.
I think she's very weak at net. I remember 2-4 game in set 3. 30-30 Caro plays a good point, comes to net with a chance to get a break point, and hits softly right to Giorgi.
That was another key point, and there were at least 10, where Caro gave the point away. On that particular point she played very well until it was time to put away a ball at the net. Its a weak part of her game. That point and the 1st point 4-5 set 2, huge points where she doesnt know how to win a point at the net.
My guess is 15-20 key points that Caro lost with a very poor shot. I dont mean on the run or return of serve. Routine shots during a point that she gave away.
Its her level of tennis now. If her opponent stays in the match Caro will give them plenty of chances

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
post #2755 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 06:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 359
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I think she's very weak at net. I remember 2-4 game in set 3. 30-30 Caro plays a good point, comes to net with a chance to get a break point, and hits softly right to Giorgi.
That was another key point, and there were at least 10, where Caro gave the point away. On that particular point she played very well until it was time to put away a ball at the net. Its a weak part of her game. That point and the 1st point 4-5 set 2, huge points where she doesnt know how to win a point at the net.
My guess is 15-20 key points that Caro lost with a very poor shot. I dont mean on the run or return of serve. Routine shots during a point that she gave away.
Its her level of tennis now. If her opponent stays in the match Caro will give them plenty of chances
Yeah, and it always seems like her opponents play exceptionally well against her. I remember Anne Keothevong commenting on how Caro's strokes produce "a very nice ball to hit". Also, I remark on the fact that most players don't have problems closing out matches against Caro. This is probably because the have nothing to fear. Honestly, what in Caro's game would you say "that's a big time weapon. We really need to game plan around that"? There's absolutely nothing! Her backhand down the line is really nice, but if you don't use it, it's almost like not having it. She hardly ever uses that shot anymore. She's also very bad tactically. I could stay here all day listing the things she needs to improve. Unfortunately, none of these things will be improved upon until she gets a REAL coach. Not her dad who's just some guy who used to play soccer. What kind of game plan is he gonna give her? The only real encouraging thing is she's beaten 2 top 10 players this year when she really can't play much worse than she is now.
njcbe is offline  
post #2756 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 06:39 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by njcbe View Post
Yeah, and it always seems like her opponents play exceptionally well against her. I remember Anne Keothevong commenting on how Caro's strokes produce "a very nice ball to hit". Also, I remark on the fact that most players don't have problems closing out matches against Caro. This is probably because the have nothing to fear. Honestly, what in Caro's game would you say "that's a big time weapon. We really need to game plan around that"? There's absolutely nothing! Her backhand down the line is really nice, but if you don't use it, it's almost like not having it. She hardly ever uses that shot anymore. She's also very bad tactically. I could stay here all day listing the things she needs to improve. Unfortunately, none of these things will be improved upon until she gets a REAL coach. Not her dad who's just some guy who used to play soccer. What kind of game plan is he gonna give her? The only real encouraging thing is she's beaten 2 top 10 players this year when she really can't play much worse than she is now.
yeah, she didnt have the backhand down the line when she needed it. And the forehand was too erratic. It was a day her groundstrokes werent good enough, and thats most days these last 2 years.
I was saying being more aggressive has hurt her being steady, but really, its her level of game. She cant dominate rallies or keep them going until she creates a positive situation.
This level is only good enough if your opponent is screwing up

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
post #2757 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 10:27 PM
Senior Member
 
RU90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 9,249
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Caro was like a sitting duck at the net in the match. I like the intent and she was actually coming in at opportune times, but she couldn't put the ball away with a decent volley. It just isn't her strong suit; nor is hitting drop shots. Remember that awful one she attempted? That was probably the worst one I've ever seen.

And no one can say she has a good backhand when she hardly ever uses it as a weapon.

I am still in a bad mood about this missed opportunity, so maybe I'm piling it on. I need to get it all out, and then I'll be back to being delusional about my expectations for Caro.

~Keys ~Pliskova ~Kvitova ~Bencic ~Ivanovic ~Bouchard ~Putintseva ~Wozniacki ~Kovinic ~Goerges ~Watson ~Chirico ~Konjuh ~Witthoeft
RU90 is online now  
post #2758 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 10:31 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by RU90 View Post
Caro was like a sitting duck at the net in the match. I like the intent and she was actually coming in at opportune times, but she couldn't put the ball away with a decent volley. It just isn't her strong suit; nor is hitting drop shots. Remember that awful one she attempted? That was probably the worst one I've ever seen.

I am still in a bad mood about this missed opportunity, so maybe I'm piling it on. I need to get it all out
Just about every aspect of her game seems to be weakening. Which shows in Caro's results. She loses her first or 2nd match most tournaments, no titles, and won only 2 quarterfinals all year.
Its okay year for someone like Cirstea. But for a player who was just #1 and in slam semis and a slam final, she's leveled off at a position where she isnt doing too well.
And I dont know what the answer is, because it was clear she was trying very hard. It wasnt lack of effort, its lack of good tennis

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
post #2759 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LV-426
Posts: 35,501
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I think she's willing to work hard. I dont know if she can improve. Your forehand cannot break down to that level. So no matter what else she does, she is never going to win if players know her forehand can destruct in total.
So what to do? Do you totally change the technique? That could make her even worse. It shatters your confidence.

This is a troubling loss. Especially since she was 2 games away when it started to fall apart.
I wouldnt even know what to advise her. Who else on the tour has any part of their game fall apart so thoroughly, and in a winnable match?
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I dont think it was nerves. She handled the first set well.
Her level of play dropped. It wasnt incredibly high to begin with, but it was good enough to be in position to win in 2 sets.
If she has nerves in round of 32, thats another issue that is hard to improve on.
But I dont think it was nerves. It wasnt lack of focus. it wasnt lack of motivation.
That was a weak level of tennis, when she lost 8 of the last 11 games. And I really dont know how she is going to improve. She's already working hard and her game is getting worse.
Caro may be willing to work hard but I don't think she's getting good technical coaching.

Things falling apart close to potentially winning the match suggests nerves to me. We've seen her falter to varying degrees when she's gotten close to winning on a lot of occasions over the past couple years.

Captain Matthew Gideon: I may have an idea.
Dureena Nafeel: I don't think you've recovered from your last good idea.
Captain Matthew Gideon: That would explain it.

Crusade: The Needs of Earth
Protoss is offline  
post #2760 of 5599 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 2013, 11:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,218
                     
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its just her level of play. Not nerves. Whether its Muguruza or Pervak or Voegele or Giorgi, this level is not high enough.
The forehand is too weak. The serve, the volley. Its a level that when the forehand gets worse, its easy to beat Caroline
I think you're wrong. What level you play is irrelivant. I suggest you watch Ao vs Li Na for a refresh of how nerves can derail Caro's game. That stratergy employed vs Giorgi was conservative, but it was working untill she started to tense up and loose focus at key moments. She had a similar wobble in the previous round.

"In time we hate that which we often fear." WS
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.” Plato
Burisleif is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome