Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6 - Page 66 - TennisForum.com
 
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post #976 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 07:54 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Its not consistent enough focus. She has to start beating noncontenders, and then they know it beforehand.
Players are ready to fall apart against Vika & Maria as soon as they fall behind.
Thats the way it used to be with Caroline also. But she has to re-establish that. Winning is enough, even if its 3 sets and sloppy.
Get to Vika here, and in Miami get to a YEC player. Thats important these next 3 weeks. Of course how she plays if she's playing Vika, is huge also.

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post #977 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 09:00 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its not consistent enough focus. She has to start beating noncontenders, and then they know it beforehand.
Players are ready to fall apart against Vika & Maria as soon as they fall behind.
Thats the way it used to be with Caroline also. But she has to re-establish that. Winning is enough, even if its 3 sets and sloppy.
Get to Vika here, and in Miami get to a YEC player. Thats important these next 3 weeks. Of course how she plays if she's playing Vika, is huge also.
That's very true. But players aren't ready to fall apart against Caro nowadays. They think and inwardly believe they can beat her when it gets tough because they've seen it happen so many times. That's why consistency is so important. It's got to be that she always wins matches when in trouble or not against players ranked below her and in time - they might start to inwardly feel that they just can't win. But before that happens - she's got to always win these matches for a long long time.

But right now - especially after I made a note of those serve speeds by top players - I think there needs to be a huge focus on that 2nd serve. It's way slower than the other top players (apart from Aga) and in her match yesterday - her 2nd serve wins ended up at 33% which was actually good compared to when it was barely over 10% for a lot of the match. I think it's just too weak to say come on and be mentally strong. It's just too tough to always come through with a serve like that. And it's impossible for any player not to have some service games sooner or later when you just can't get a first serve in.

I've started to think that 2nd serve is just too much of a handicap to be able to always pull through. I really think she needs a serve coach and to particularly work on that 2nd serve and getting her 2nd serve winning percentage up.

Caroline Wozniacki

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post #978 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 09:02 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

While I think it's important Caro at least reaches YEC players (which isn't even a given right now), there also has to come a point where she has to threaten them. Her team can't go on forever accepting mediocrity, otherwise you are in danger of being the next Ivanovic (without the big fall). Somebody who is reasonably consistent, but doesn't pose any real threat to the top players. Caro is on a slightly higher level, but the principle is the same.
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post #979 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 09:35 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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While I think it's important Caro at least reaches YEC players (which isn't even a given right now), there also has to come a point where she has to threaten them. Her team can't go on forever accepting mediocrity, otherwise you are in danger of being the next Ivanovic (without the big fall). Somebody who is reasonably consistent, but doesn't pose any real threat to the top players. Caro is on a slightly higher level, but the principle is the same.
I'm not advocating that all I ever want is for her to always beat lower ranked players and that's enough ever. But I do think she needs to have a consisten level which she can build on. Also how much do the long matches against players she routinely used to beat in straights take out of her if she makes it to a YEC player.

I think what I'm saying is like last year she had a great win against Serena but then it was back to square 1. I won't say no to that but I'd swap 2012 where she beat Serena for 2011 or 2010 when she didn't beat Serena. I think Caro's game is not really built on having an out the blue freak win. But should be built on always being there knocking on the door. In her heyday that was the case at two of the slams as well - AO and USO. Knocking at the door. And if she keeps putting herself in that position I can start thinking she can go further if the stars are aligned right. The more tries - the more chances.

Now knocking at the door to me means getting to the YEC players. But until the consistency is there - I just see her going the way of JJ.

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post #980 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 09:57 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Its going to be interesting to watch. Looking at Hantuchova last night, it reminds me of Ivanovic.
Dani was playing well, played a few loose points, and its almost like she's thinking: Here I go again

Vika wasnt playing that well, but she kept competing. I think there's no magic to it, just hard work, physically & mentally.

I think Caro burned out mentally and thats why she was trying to end points quicker. I'm all for trying to end the point, but you have to put those shots in play.

Now we'll see. Not having a full time coach and falling so quickly, while healthy, looks self defeating behavior.
But Caroline is the only person who can change that. I think there's a good chance she's never going to be #1 for a 68th week, and never in a 2nd slam final. Unless her focus improves.
She has to do the mental work to not let her opponents have easy sets, easy points in key moments

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post #981 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 10:06 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I'm not advocating that all I ever want is for her to always beat lower ranked players and that's enough ever. But I do think she needs to have a consisten level which she can build on. Also how much do the long matches against players she routinely used to beat in straights take out of her if she makes it to a YEC player.

I think what I'm saying is like last year she had a great win against Serena but then it was back to square 1. I won't say no to that but I'd swap 2012 where she beat Serena for 2011 or 2010 when she didn't beat Serena. I think Caro's game is not really built on having an out the blue freak win. But should be built on always being there knocking on the door. In her heyday that was the case at two of the slams as well - AO and USO. Knocking at the door. And if she keeps putting herself in that position I can start thinking she can go further if the stars are aligned right. The more tries - the more chances.

Now knocking at the door to me means getting to the YEC players. But until the consistency is there - I just see her going the way of JJ.
This of course correct. There needs to be some context on things though. She had runs of wins last year (Miami the obvious example) where people proclaimed she was back, but it never really come around. While she competed well at times in Doha and Dubai (the matches vs Barthel and Bartoli for example), I didn't really see the large improvements others saw, some of her opponents were simply horrendous. I think there needs to be a degree of caution though in any claims she is back or her saying words hinting as such in interviews. There is a whole lot more work to be done, the gap between her and the top players (which doesn't seem to be closing) is still big atm.
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post #982 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its going to be interesting to watch. Looking at Hantuchova last night, it reminds me of Ivanovic.
Dani was playing well, played a few loose points, and its almost like she's thinking: Here I go again

Vika wasnt playing that well, but she kept competing. I think there's no magic to it, just hard work, physically & mentally.

I think Caro burned out mentally and thats why she was trying to end points quicker. I'm all for trying to end the point, but you have to put those shots in play.

Now we'll see. Not having a full time coach and falling so quickly, while healthy, looks self defeating behavior.
But Caroline is the only person who can change that. I think there's a good chance she's never going to be #1 for a 68th week, and never in a 2nd slam final. Unless her focus improves.
She has to do the mental work to not let her opponents have easy sets, easy points in key moments
Part of this is also reputation. Caro used to have a reputation as a brick wall. You had to play great tennis to beat her on the big points. Thats long gone now though, players will have noticed her problems. A lot of players don't mind to play Caro anymore. If you go into a matchup more confident you can win, you're more likely to play your best tennis to do so. I won't talk about Vika so not to come across biased , but take Radwanska, the majority of lower ranked players are beaten before they even go on the court with her, they just don't believe they can win. Caro has given plenty of reasons for the locker room to believe against her. And I say this as someone who doesn't think Radwanska is anywhere near as good a competitor mentally as Wozniacki was in her heyday.
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post #983 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 06:33 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Reportedly,some courts are playing very slow...almost like clay...and we all know that clay isn't Caro's best surface

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post #984 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 10:37 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Reportedly,some courts are playing very slow...almost like clay...and we all know that clay isn't Caro's best surface
Caro's problem with clay isn't it's slow courts (she is doing fine on slower HC), it's the unreliable bounce (relative big swing) and that her balls often just 'sits up' for the opponent to hit them, as Caro doesn't hit hard enough to hit through the clay. And she doesn't have a good slice.

Her best clay surface is (despite some horrid losses there) Roland Garros. The courts there are in such pristine conditions, they are almost like a green clay court. Paired with the smaller balls, Caro's lack of power, is less of an issue. When it's a nice summer day with baking sun, RG is almost a perfect venue for Caro.

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post #985 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caro's problem with clay isn't it's slow courts (she is doing fine on slower HC), it's the unreliable bounce (relative big swing) and that her balls often just 'sits up' for the opponent to hit them, as Caro doesn't hit hard enough to hit through the clay. And she doesn't have a good slice.

Her best clay surface is (despite some horrid losses there) Roland Garros. The courts there are in such pristine conditions, they are most like a green clay court. Paired with the smaller balls, Caro's lack of power, is less of an issue. When it's a nice summer day with baking sun, RG is almost a perfect venue for Caro.

When it's rainy and wet, it's not!
still I think one of the best matches on clay was against Pennetta in a super rainy day and super slow conditions...yet I think the counterpunchers a-la Flavia are her best match up, as she gives them no pace to lay onto and she make them hit more and more shots until they start missing.

Anw I think she could do well in Rome and Madrid too, as the two are very fast clay courts, the former because the organizers from last year decided to "ice" the clay and the latter because of the altitude and the additive for blue clay.

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post #986 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caro's problem with clay isn't it's slow courts (she is doing fine on slower HC), it's the unreliable bounce (relative big swing) and that her balls often just 'sits up' for the opponent to hit them, as Caro doesn't hit hard enough to hit through the clay. And she doesn't have a good slice.

Her best clay surface is (despite some horrid losses there) Roland Garros. The courts there are in such pristine conditions, they are almost like a green clay court. Paired with the smaller balls, Caro's lack of power, is less of an issue. When it's a nice summer day with baking sun, RG is almost a perfect venue for Caro.

When it's rainy and wet, it's not!
Don't forget to mention movement. Caro's not a natural clay mover, she's never learned to slide into a shot.

Paul Annacone on Wozniacki: "Her biggest skill is to make you over play."
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post #987 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 02:38 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caro's problem with clay isn't it's slow courts (she is doing fine on slower HC), it's the unreliable bounce (relative big swing) and that her balls often just 'sits up' for the opponent to hit them, as Caro doesn't hit hard enough to hit through the clay. And she doesn't have a good slice.

Her best clay surface is (despite some horrid losses there) Roland Garros. The courts there are in such pristine conditions, they are almost like a green clay court. Paired with the smaller balls, Caro's lack of power, is less of an issue. When it's a nice summer day with baking sun, RG is almost a perfect venue for Caro.

When it's rainy and wet, it's not!
I suppose that I often miss such technical distinctions,so thank you for explaining.I probably should've noticed it,huh(?),since Caro has won a couple clay titles

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post #988 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Don't forget to mention movement. Caro's not a natural clay mover, she's never learned to slide into a shot.
Yes I would say this is the entire key as to why Caro is not that effective on clay. You can get away with not being able to slide if you are an offensive player, as a defensive player you simply cannot. It's important for defensive players to be able to recover their court position quickly, if you cannot slide you can't do this.
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post #989 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 2013, 05:22 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Caro was in a Madrid final, Rome SF, won Brussels. I think she had a chance to be a good clay player. But after 2011 clay season her mental game collapsed.
That took away the natural progression of everything. Her game wasnt getting better and her clay game wasnt getting better.

I remember this time in 2011 I thought 2 goals for the spring & summer could be to have her best FO & Wimbledon. To start to become a contender there.
But I didnt realize what was going to happen to her career.

I still think if she competes well, she can play on clay. She played Sharapova close in Rome 2011, and Maria wanted that because she was beaten badly at IW 2011 & USO 2010 by Caro

The hardest part of this game is the mental commitment, and until Caroline has that relentless focus again, forget about clay

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post #990 of 5196 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Interesting about Petrova vs Goerges

José Morgado ‏@josemorgado
Petrova 61 62 over Goerges but in 90 minutes. Still really impressive.

erika ‏@SCWTA
Story of the match, while only 6-1 *4-2, Petrova & Goerges have played 94 points in 1:22:33. Petrova is 5 for 5 BPs. Goerges is 1 for 6 BPs.
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