Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6 - Page 30 - TennisForum.com
 
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post #436 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 06:01 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I don't care who's Caro's coach, I just want to see her become a better player! Because for me it's really hard to understand, why such a hardworking girl like Caro is not imropving!
Despite the heartbreaking result, I actually thought Caroline showed a lot of improvement. She was stepping into her returns, strategically placing her shots rather than just looping them back into play, coming into net, and forcing errors from Sveta. I don't care about the "winners" stat - it's totally meaningless whether or not the opponent gets a piece of the racket on the ball if the point is over. This is a stat that lazy journalists love.

It was a very high quality match from both players, IMO. But as many of you noted, she still doesn't have the confidence to close out these tight matches like she did in 2010-11. (Although she certainly did against Lisicky in the 1st round.) If she can get a good result in IW or Miami, it could put her back in the right mindset.

Personally, I think Piotr needs to get a life outside of Caroline's tennis. This relationship appears to be getting more and more negative. His facial expressions during the match were disheartening for the most part. It reminded me of my relationship with my father, and how he made me never want to play the sport again. Piotr should take a cue from Richard Williams, and Caroline should take her cue from Agnieska.
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post #437 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 06:31 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Caroline

Disappointing. Heartbreaking. So pissed off. Another close loss to Kuznetsova

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post #438 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 06:33 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Caro is now 2-3 (40%) in sets 6-4 or closer this year. She won 63% of such sets in 2012, 58% of such sets in 2009, and 70% of such sets from 2010 Copenhagen through 2011 Wimbledon.

Here's a comparison of Caro's forced points vs Kuznetsova's:

Forced points = winners + forced errors

Caro (for the match): 51
Kuznetsova (for the match): 77
Caro's forced points as a % of Kuznetsova's (for the match): 66%
Caro (sets 2&3 combined: 37
Kuznetsova (sets 2& 3 combined): 52
Caro's forced points as a % of Kuznetsova's (sets 2&3 combined): 71%

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post #439 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 07:05 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by overrule View Post
Despite the heartbreaking result, I actually thought Caroline showed a lot of improvement. She was stepping into her returns, strategically placing her shots rather than just looping them back into play, coming into net, and forcing errors from Sveta. I don't care about the "winners" stat - it's totally meaningless whether or not the opponent gets a piece of the racket on the ball if the point is over. This is a stat that lazy journalists love.

It was a very high quality match from both players, IMO. But as many of you noted, she still doesn't have the confidence to close out these tight matches like she did in 2010-11. (Although she certainly did against Lisicky in the 1st round.) If she can get a good result in IW or Miami, it could put her back in the right mindset.

Personally, I think Piotr needs to get a life outside of Caroline's tennis. This relationship appears to be getting more and more negative. His facial expressions during the match were disheartening for the most part. It reminded me of my relationship with my father, and how he made me never want to play the sport again. Piotr should take a cue from Richard Williams, and Caroline should take her cue from Agnieska.
In an old documentary Piotr once said that it is hard to concentrate so much on one person in the family. Professional arrangements where family members turn into business partners can always take a toll on the family.
I think Piotr is a pretty intense person, he probably goes through twice as bad emotional state than Caro when he has to watch how big chances are slipping through her fingers. I wouldn't want to be around him when he bottles out
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post #440 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 07:22 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caro is now 2-3 (40%) in sets 6-4 or closer this year. She won 63% of such sets in 2012, 58% of such sets in 2009, and 70% of such sets from 2010 Copenhagen through 2011 Wimbledon.

...
This whole situation is very hard to fully understand.
But the part of this drop off that is clear is that in close matches, early in tournaments, she has a lot of trouble closing out sets and matches and advancing in draws.
She used to be excellent at that. When she played Cibulkova at Wimbledon 2011, Caro was holding 9 titles, and was in 15 semis in her last 19 tournaments. Thats starting with Rogers Cup in summer of 2010 until Wimbledon 2011, almost a full year, and only 2011 Sydney, 2011 Miami, 2011 Madrid and 2011 French Open. Those were the only times she wasnt in at least the semis.
And she had won 5 Tier I's in a row. YEC final, 2 slam semis.
Starting with that Cibulkova match, and maybe we should start with the Hantuchova loss in Paris, but a semifinal appearance is rare, and no Tier I final appearance since IW 2011.
Losing in 3 sets to Pervak, then twice in a row to Sveta, is a continuation of a long term trend that is starting to define her post #1 career.
Still a few more hardcourt tournaments before clay & grass & US summer, where she really struggled last year
I think its important for Caroline to get some results before clay season, or its going to be a tough year for her

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post #441 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
The only positive we can take from this tournament is that it could have been even worse. Having said that, I think she actualy played a decent match against Sveta. Halfway through the third set I thought Caro would win it. But unfortunately she no longer has a mental edge in close matches like she had in the past.
The part in bold is exactly what I thought whenI watched it in bed. She lost but I liked the way she played. She was moving Sveta around and was playing with controlled aggression and I thought Sveta was tiring. Sveta played brilliantly the last 3 games of the match and I can't really put too much fault on Caro there. But I do feel she missed out on actually breaking Sveta a couple of times more before it got to that. I got annoyed with a few silly UEs in the 3rd set - as did Caro herself. And silly "blind as a bat" challenges where she stopped the point and of course was wrong.

I do think the biggest difference netween Caro and Sveta which was the decisive factor was their play at the net. The gap between them was huge there and Sveta was really good at the net in this match. Caro made several mistkes there where she'd controlled the point and should have won it. I remember times where she put it long, messed it up or put it straight to Sveta and times where if she'd won that point she'd have been like 40-0 with her playing well were 30-15 and games slipping away.

I do think playing doubles could help Caro. She really was very close to getting more breaks and a lead in the 3rd set and winning this match.

I should be feeling awful that she lost. I'm sad. But I don't feel really depressed because she did play some really good tennis. She actually hit 23 winners to 22 UEs which is +1 and those winners were really good. Just that Sveta hit 52 winners to 41 UEs = +11.

Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters

Last edited by terjw; Jan 21st, 2013 at 09:40 PM.
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post #442 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 2013, 10:09 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I liked the way Caro played in some parts of the match versus Kuznetsova although she couldn't do it on key points in the 3rd set. It's still an improvement from her previous tournaments, and I think she will be back in top 10 in some weeks

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post #443 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:05 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I am not sure exactly why this happens, but a Caroline loss hits me hard. I agree with many here that she shows some improvement over last year. I also agree with those who said her father should distance himself from being a pseudo-coach of Caroline. I have watched for over 3 years now. What I have observed is that when he goes out to talk to her in non-Grand Slam tournaments he does not stop talking for 99% of the time. That is not coaching, it appears to me it is a father dominating a daughter who is now a grown woman. I say this also believing there is absolutely nothing malevolent about it. I just think it hinders her development.

Last edited by neverforget; Jan 22nd, 2013 at 01:10 AM. Reason: left out a word
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post #444 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:34 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I think Caroline wants her dad as coach, at least for this year.
I thought she finished last year well, beat Li & Stosur, made 3 finals.
I'm not in agreement with a lot of you that 2 losses to Sveta is an improvement. And cant gift away the first set to any good player.
Lets see what happens in Doha & Dubai.
Right now she's 4 match wins in 3 tournaments.

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post #445 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:48 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I think Caroline wants her dad as coach, at least for this year.
I thought she finished last year well, beat Li & Stosur, made 3 finals.
I'm not in agreement with a lot of you that 2 losses to Sveta is an improvement. And cant gift away the first set to any good player.
Lets see what happens in Doha & Dubai.
Right now she's 4 match wins in 3 tournaments.
I definitely agree with you about the gifting away of the opening set loss to Kuznetsova.
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post #446 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:34 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I think Caroline wants her dad as coach, at least for this year.
I thought she finished last year well, beat Li & Stosur, made 3 finals.
I'm not in agreement with a lot of you that 2 losses to Sveta is an improvement. And cant gift away the first set to any good player.
Lets see what happens in Doha & Dubai.
Right now she's 4 match wins in 3 tournaments.
I believe that's the case as far as wanting to keep her dad as coach for the year.

I think sometimes you have to seperate the level of play in a match from the result.

It would be a good sign if she can build upon her Open match against Kuznetsova. When Caro has played good matches during this slump, she often hasn't been able to follow up on them.

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post #447 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 03:48 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I definitely agree with you about the gifting away of the opening set loss to Kuznetsova.
Hey - welcome to you Neverforget. I agree with you that you can't win deciding matches/games if you can't use your breakpoints, and in this match she had a lot. But she's on the right track and with a good performance in Doha she'll be climbing again.
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post #448 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 03:51 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Hey - welcome to you Neverforget. I agree with you that you can't win deciding matches/games if you can't use your breakpoints, and in this match she had a lot. But she's on the right track and with a good performance in Doha she'll be climbing again.
That is an interesting avatar. It almost looks you are carrying Caroline on your back. Thanks for the welcome. I like this forum.
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post #449 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 05:40 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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But ... if a player is feeling, it's not the right coach/trainer, I doubt there's much point in continuing. On the other hand, if a player feels it is the right coach, the patience to see through changes will obviously be larger.
First off,Caro is under no obligation to change her dad-coach even if 98% of her diehard fans scream for that.However,I don't believe that there was a very sincere effort by Caro to make it work,and I'd even say it to her face...even if she denied that...if we were sitting down to rich,Polish coffee one day.

It might sound like nonsense,but there are pure,dirty lies that make you lose respect for a person...and then there are 'sports lies' which aren't quite as serious,in my book,i.e.: Ridiculous stuff that athletes say when they're feeling weary while being pestered by media.I'd say that Caroline's coaching comments fell into the 2nd category.

My suspicion is that Caro believed that the coaching change would fail from the beginning(and that part of her even WANTED it to fail)...yet she felt at least halfway obligated to try that new tack given her growing slump along with the bad-mouthing that she was a helpless daddy's girl.Even Caro had to grudgingly admit that it was a reasonable premise to get a fresh perspective different from her father's.However,once it all started and rapidly lost her approval,she couldn't wait for the minimum time frame to elapse which would allow her to fire Sanchez without looking totally absurd.

Will re-state that I have no problem whatsoever with Piotr and Caro's desire to work together.All the same,I'd call it a poor reflection of a player's mental strength if he/she is only capable of playing for one coach on the planet.Strongly PREFERRING a particular coach??That's only human...but being weak and ineffective unless you have your favorite coach??THAT'S taking things a bit too far,IMO

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post #450 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 05:54 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I believe that's the case as far as wanting to keep her dad as coach for the year.

I think sometimes you have to seperate the level of play in a match from the result.

It would be a good sign if she can build upon her Open match against Kuznetsova. When Caro has played good matches during this slump, she often hasn't been able to follow up on them.
Her level of play was not good in the 1st set. Sveta's level wasnt good in the 2nd.
Its not like Caro became a terrible player. She played some awful matches, like the loss the Ivanovic at IW.
But this loss was in the ballpark with her losses to Safarova and Goerges and Paszek and Kanepi. She played well enough to be in contention and still couldnt get thru to play an actual contender.
Her problem is winning the matches. Its not like she dropped to where she cant compete

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