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post #3946 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 03:04 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
At least on the commentary here in nearly 100% of Caro's matches it is brought up how she hasn't won a grand slam yet. A lot of the time it's mentioned how defensive players don't win grand slams, they can't cope with the big hitters at the top of the game. If Aga wins Wimbledon, all of a sudden that rather simple argument which is put forward by a lot of the media instantly falls apart, and more questions will be asked why Caro can't win a grand slam.
"Why can't you win a slam" is an irrelevant question for someone who's often struggling to win matches anywhere.

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post #3947 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 06:10 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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"Why can't you win a slam" is an irrelevant question for someone who's often struggling to win matches anywhere.
Yeah, to me, 2013 is much worse than even last year for Caro.
that she could start by being up a set to Pervak and lose, then say she needs matches. There's a major in a week!
So she loses to Pervak & Sveta twice, there goes the 1st hardcourt major.
Now Caro has 5 wins TOTAL at the last 5 majors. 5 wins used to be 1 major for Caro
She has one more major this year and if she is still going out early, I dont see reason for optimism about winning a major. The fields are getting deeper as young players like Stephens, Keys and Puig and the rest, mature. The big 3 will still be around, plus Stosur, Li, Aga, Lisicki and the rest

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post #3948 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 06:24 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
Caro and Vika used to be friends up til around when Vika won a slam, now they aren't really. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, perhaps it's not.
Maybe it's just a result of Vika's life being busier now that she's an elite player.I don't sense any hostility from Caro's camp or the other

P.S.: Look at the B.S. double talk after Aga--supposedly 'far,far away',a HUGE longshot--miraculously managed to beat a player whom she's beaten on 4 previous occasions.A word to the wise: oddsmakers,'punters'-- or whatever stupid,dorky-ass name you give them--are about as reliable as cheerleaders if you're looking for intelligent insight on specific matches.They are VERY good numbers crunchers and tendency watchers so, if you follow a betting service with a proven track record, you can make yourself some decent supplemental income. However, if you're looking for subtle insight on a sport, someone who has the wisdom to notice important intangible elements, oddsmakers are usually as worthless as teats on a bull. A lot of shrewd NFL insiders picked the Ravens as a darkhorse to win the SB, and pretty much ZERO Vegas oddsmakers did.....Perfect case in point

Aga still has a big roadblock in her path in Lisicki, but you can't discount factors like mental toughness......or a lack thereof, as in Kvitova's case

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post #3949 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 06:44 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
At least on the commentary here in nearly 100% of Caro's matches it is brought up how she hasn't won a grand slam yet. A lot of the time it's mentioned how defensive players don't win grand slams, they can't cope with the big hitters at the top of the game. If Aga wins Wimbledon, all of a sudden that rather simple argument which is put forward by a lot of the media instantly falls apart, and more questions will be asked why Caro can't win a grand slam.
It's virtually impossible to quantifiably measure this, but I've heard it argued that there's less pressure on a player like Stosur than there is on Caro in a Slam final, supposedly because gals like Sam aren't upper elite players and, therefore, don't get mentioned nearly as much for being slamless(we're going back to Stosur's slamless days, for the sake of argument).

I don't think that it's so cut and dried; I recall Sam's RG final vs. Fran in 2010.The 2 players were roughly equivalent as older players--Fran MORE so--with scarce slam success.....And Fran played loose yet determined while Sam looked quite tight to me(especially against someone whom she had completely dominated in the H2H).If there's any reliable formula there, then why did Fran respond well to the pressure and Sam poorly??

To ME, it's encouraging that Fran had had an abysmal oh-fer in Finals for many years, then somehow learned to be tougher, mentally.In Caroline's case, the problem is a bit more narrowly confined to slams, as opposed to ANY big match(acknowledging that Caro hasn't advanced to that many big showdowns in the last 2 years compared to what she previously had done).Regardless, if Fran can go from being Finals Choker to RG champ, then I don't see anything that would prohibit Caroline from learning how to close out slam matches if and when she puts herself in position to start winning them again

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post #3950 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 10:11 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Aga won, plays Sabine, Petra still there. I think this generation is going to win over 10 majors.
Right now Vika has 2 and Petra one. Pretty good chance the 4th is this Saturday.
I dont know if Caro will ever get back in the mix. I hope they work smart. She has a lot to overcome now, and they have to be smarter about everything. Racket, strings, style of play, practice sessions, everything has to be done right. And make sure Caroline is ready for the hardcourt majors
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It is realistic that by Saturday night, Aga, Vika and Petra all have majors.
Thats life. When Caro is struggling, I hope that motivates her.
I expect this group to win many more majors. When Serena is another 2 or 3 years older, I expect a lot of slams to be very winnable.
Whether Caro is in that group contending at majors is up to her. You have to fight for it. Aga & Sabine fought thru very tough matches, and now play each other.
You have to fight every round, from the 1st point on.
10 or so slams seems plausible for this 1988-1991 generation. Perhaps the biggest determing factor will be how healthy Serena is and how high a level she can still maintain.

It'll be interesting to see how many players from that group end up winning slams.


# of slams won so far by these birth years:

1976-1979: 9
1980-1983: 42
1980-1983 (without Serena): 26
1984-1987: 8
1988-1991: 3

# of slam winners so far by these birth years:

1976-1979: 4
1980-1983: 8
1984-1987: 4
1988-1991: 2

# of slam winners during a 4 year period:

1997-2000: 9
1998-2001: 9
1999-2002: 7
2000-2003: 6
2001-2004: 7
2002-2005: 8
2003-2006: 8
2004-2007: 8
2005-2008: 7
2006-2009: 8
2007-2010: 8
2008-2011: 9
2009-2012: 9

# of 1st time slam winners during a 4 year period:

1997-2000: 6
1998-2001: 5
1999-2002: 3
2000-2003: 3
2001-2004: 5
2002-2005: 5
2003-2006: 6
2004-2007: 5
2005-2008: 3
2006-2009: 2
2007-2010: 2
2008-2011: 5
2009-2012: 5

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Last edited by Protoss; Jul 4th, 2013 at 05:43 PM. Reason: corrected "ending" to "end"
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post #3951 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 10:41 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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It doesnt matter if 'its a good thing' or not. The top players from the generation thats about 23yrs old should be winning majors the next 5-8 years.
This should be their time. That Caro stopped winning matches is something we've all guessed at.
Rory, change of style, change of technique, burned out..
Whatever it was, it cant be worse than Lisicki being off the tour with an injury.
If Caro cant overcome whatever stopped her success, then it wasnt meant to be.
She's not overplaying, because she doesnt win many matches. Rory's been around for 2 years. She has to be able to play with a boyfriend.
If they did some changes that set her back, they have to look at old tapes and get back to what she did well.
But if she cant do it, it happens. There were other young stars who faded out early. You need the mental toughness to fight thru any adversity
8 years seems a bit high. Players winning slams in their 30s isn't common (they tend to be all time greats) and I don't see that changing much.

To a certain extent I think Caro had too much success too early. If Caro's success had been limited somewhat, then she would have had to keep developing her game. She also wouldn't have all the money and fame which came with success that I think take away some of her hunger.

Once upon a time Caro was regarded as one of the mentally toughest players on tour (although I think they overstated it some).

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Last edited by Protoss; Jul 3rd, 2013 at 10:52 AM.
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post #3952 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 12:21 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
8 years seems a bit high. Players winning slams in their 30s isn't common (they tend to be all time greats) and I don't see that changing much.

To a certain extent I think Caro had too much success too early. If Caro's success had been limited somewhat, then she would have had to keep developing her game. She also wouldn't have all the money and fame which came with success that I think take away some of her hunger.

Once upon a time Caro was regarded as one of the mentally toughest players on tour (although I think they overstated it some).
Her mental toughness wasnt good at majors. Could have closed against Li Na, and played Vera in a US Open SF. So Caro had 3 very real chances to be in slam finals and only won against Wickmayer, that wasnt even on the big court, because of rain, Kim was beating Serena at the same time.
So I dont think she showed mental toughness at slams the way she has has in winning 20 nonslams.
But now, she rarely wins matches, so she has different problems to overcome

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post #3953 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 02:10 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
At least on the commentary here in nearly 100% of Caro's matches it is brought up how she hasn't won a grand slam yet. A lot of the time it's mentioned how defensive players don't win grand slams, they can't cope with the big hitters at the top of the game. If Aga wins Wimbledon, all of a sudden that rather simple argument which is put forward by a lot of the media instantly falls apart, and more questions will be asked why Caro can't win a grand slam.
They are still trying to get some attention out of the same old BS basically.
I don't think that Caro has much attention these days though. In the press she's hardly ever mentioned as she loses early quite often these days. A bit similar to Kvitova who also disappeared from the media's radar even though she was sooo hyped up. I think that if Aga wins Wimbledon the media won't change the storyline though. They will just say that she won because she's turned her game around and became more aggressive.
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post #3954 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 02:23 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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"Why can't you win a slam" is an irrelevant question for someone who's often struggling to win matches anywhere.
Agree. No-one is asking Malta, why they cannot win the WC in football. It is an irrelevant question.

Caro hasn't made it to the 2nd week in a slam since USO 2011. That's 2 years ago and 7 slams ago.

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post #3955 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 02:37 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caro hasn't made it to the 2nd week in a slam since USO 2011. That's 2 years ago and 7 slams ago.
Technically, she has made one (fourth round of this year's Australian Open), but yes, your point remains.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Caro responds during the U.S. summer hard-court season. If she can't get it together by then, she is in big trouble.
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post #3956 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 03:02 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Technically, she has made one (fourth round of this year's Australian Open), but yes, your point remains.
Didn't she reach the QF at 2012 as well? I assume that was during the 2nd week

One Slam to go this year, the good news is that she is defending zero at NY.


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post #3957 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 03:21 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

At the rate for U.S. Open I be just happy by her making the 4th round consider how her form is, just getting injured, & we don't know how bad that draw gonna look. If she make the QF that be even better but a 4th won't be bad in my book how thing going so far but I hoping for a QF. I think her last too Slams has been Awful mostly RG, Wimby I understand she got Injured but that draw was too easy too be mess up like that. Aussie open I wasn't mad about that lost to Sveta due too the fact Sveta kinda like Vee she Dangerous to whoever she plays

S. Williams (21) ♦ V. Williams (7) ♦ Vika (2) ♦ Kvitová (2) ♦ Kerber (1) ♦ Ivanovic (1) ♦
C. Wozniacki ♦ A. Radwanska ♦ S. Halep ♦ G. Muguruza ♦ B. Bencic ♦ S. Stephens ♦ M. Keys ♦ Domi Cibulkova ♦ G. Bouchard ♦ L. Robson ♦ N. Osaka ♦ J. Ostapenko ♦ A. Konjuh ♦ D. Vekic ♦ M. Puig ♦ V. Duval ♦ T. Townsend ♦ L. Chirico ♦ F. Abanda ♦ T. Andrianjafitrimo ♦ F. Stollár ♦ S. Samir
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post #3958 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 04:03 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Maybe it's just a result of Vika's life being busier now that she's an elite player.I don't sense any hostility from Caro's camp or the other

P.S.: Look at the B.S. double talk after Aga--supposedly 'far,far away',a HUGE longshot--miraculously managed to beat a player whom she's beaten on 4 previous occasions.A word to the wise: oddsmakers,'punters'-- or whatever stupid,dorky-ass name you give them--are about as reliable as cheerleaders if you're looking for intelligent insight on specific matches.They are VERY good numbers crunchers and tendency watchers so, if you follow a betting service with a proven track record, you can make yourself some decent supplemental income. However, if you're looking for subtle insight on a sport, someone who has the wisdom to notice important intangible elements, oddsmakers are usually as worthless as teats on a bull. A lot of shrewd NFL insiders picked the Ravens as a darkhorse to win the SB, and pretty much ZERO Vegas oddsmakers did.....Perfect case in point

Aga still has a big roadblock in her path in Lisicki, but you can't discount factors like mental toughness......or a lack thereof, as in Kvitova's case
I think that Lisicki is the favorite now, but I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope that Aga will prove me wrong and take the title.
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post #3959 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 04:06 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Didn't she reach the QF at 2012 as well? I assume that was during the 2nd week
Yup
Quote:
One Slam to go this year, the good news is that she is defending zero at NY.
Actually, she's defending a measly 10 points.
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post #3960 of 5196 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2013, 04:24 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

^ 5 points.

S. Williams (21) ♦ V. Williams (7) ♦ Vika (2) ♦ Kvitová (2) ♦ Kerber (1) ♦ Ivanovic (1) ♦
C. Wozniacki ♦ A. Radwanska ♦ S. Halep ♦ G. Muguruza ♦ B. Bencic ♦ S. Stephens ♦ M. Keys ♦ Domi Cibulkova ♦ G. Bouchard ♦ L. Robson ♦ N. Osaka ♦ J. Ostapenko ♦ A. Konjuh ♦ D. Vekic ♦ M. Puig ♦ V. Duval ♦ T. Townsend ♦ L. Chirico ♦ F. Abanda ♦ T. Andrianjafitrimo ♦ F. Stollár ♦ S. Samir
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