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post #2536 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 8th, 2013, 11:27 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Trey View Post
Is there ANy news or updates on Caro so far hoping she practicing
I think taking a few days off might help. She has to clear her head. Incredibly poor clay season so far. Dont overtrain. Its important to be playing well when hardcourt premiers start

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post #2537 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 8th, 2013, 11:56 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Making the YEC is important for what it represents, no matter how well or poorly you do when you actually get there. It sends the message, "I'm part of the elite. I'm one of the few instead of one of the many." And that's important both from a sponsorship perspective and for her own self-confidence.
Well,I wouldn't categorize that as an absolute: Did Stosur play any better,or more confidently,at the start of this season after squeaking into YEC last year??It didn't seem to help her AT ALL.Let's just say,for the sake of argument,that no one who's currently trailing Caroline makes a big push this year...and she plays just barely well enough to qualify.I believe that very FEW tennis fans or insiders will consider Caro 'elite' if she gets smashed in every single RR match...nor will be there ANY appreciable confidence boost,from such an outcome,compared to how she'd feel as #11 in the YEC race....You are correct about the sponsorship issues,though

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post #2538 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 09:26 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Well,I wouldn't categorize that as an absolute: Did Stosur play any better,or more confidently,at the start of this season after squeaking into YEC last year??It didn't seem to help her AT ALL.Let's just say,for the sake of argument,that no one who's currently trailing Caroline makes a big push this year...and she plays just barely well enough to qualify.I believe that very FEW tennis fans or insiders will consider Caro 'elite' if she gets smashed in every single RR match...nor will be there ANY appreciable confidence boost,from such an outcome,compared to how she'd feel as #11 in the YEC race....You are correct about the sponsorship issues,though
Well, you have a point. On the other hand, many players see it as an honour to get to the YEC. It's sort off like making the cut. That's why you often see players add a tournament here or there to their schedule if they are in contention for the final spot(s). They all want to "make it to the YEC", even those who may have little chance of winning it once the're there.
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post #2539 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 10:41 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I think taking a few days off might help. She has to clear her head. Incredibly poor clay season so far. Dont overtrain. Its important to be playing well when hardcourt premiers start
Yes, I agree... All the stress from golf watching after Charleston and shopping and fooling around with the boyfriend in Monaco must be very stressful.

Caroline has such a hard life

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post #2540 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Well,I wouldn't categorize that as an absolute: Did Stosur play any better,or more confidently,at the start of this season after squeaking into YEC last year??It didn't seem to help her AT ALL.Let's just say,for the sake of argument,that no one who's currently trailing Caroline makes a big push this year...and she plays just barely well enough to qualify.I believe that very FEW tennis fans or insiders will consider Caro 'elite' if she gets smashed in every single RR match...nor will be there ANY appreciable confidence boost,from such an outcome,compared to how she'd feel as #11 in the YEC race....You are correct about the sponsorship issues,though
Technically Stosur only made it as an alternate. I doubt you get the same joy or buzz from effectively being there to make up the numbers (you aren't even used in the promo stuff). You are not really part of the elite as such if you are only there as an alternate, hence why the race is about the top 8 and not top 10.

I agree with Chrissie's line "They all want to "make it to the YEC", even those who may have little chance of winning it once they're there".

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post #2541 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 10:59 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

If Caroline gets to the YEC, at least it means this current run of losing 4 of her last 5 matches ends.
There is a big difference between the slam contenders & those in the race for #1, and the players overplaying in the fall to get the last spot at the YEC. But its better than playing the whole year and not making it there

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post #2542 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 03:01 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Making the YEC is important for what it represents, no matter how well or poorly you do when you actually get there. It sends the message, "I'm part of the elite. I'm one of the few instead of one of the many." And that's important both from a sponsorship perspective and for her own self-confidence.
Sure. Let me clarify. I think Trey said he'd be happy if Caro made the YEC as an alternate. I'd be happy too . No doubt about it. Of course Caro should be grateful and honoured and play, if she qualifies. Anything else would be disrespectful.

What I'm objecting about, is the concern some of you have about her schedule, and whether her schedule is the best in order to reach Istanbul. This shouldn't be a concern at all! There are three grand slams coming up before istanbul, plus five premier 5 or mandatory tournaments. These tournaments should be Caro's main concern. If she can find just a bit of her old form, and some consistency, then she'll no doubt be part of the Istanbul finale. Getting to Istanbul for me is not about whoring up anything available in October when the top 6 will no longer play because they're already qualified. And it's not about plotting some clever scheme that will somehow sneak her into the YEC. It's about earning the neccesary points during the entire season by getting deep into the draws at the majors and the major tournaments. She tried to catch up with a big finish in 2012, but failed anyway. Focus here and now - there are plenty of points coming up the next 5 months.

Something else, although I might be stretching it. But I think it's wrong from a psychological point of view to be concerned about making Istanbul. It's not the right mentality for an athlete to think that way. Like "Maybe I'm not making Istanbul this year. Probably not. So I'd better have a plan B ready, because I'd really like to play Istanbul". An athlete shoud be a bit more determined and confident than that.
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post #2543 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 03:21 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Technically Stosur only made it as an alternate. I doubt you get the same joy or buzz from effectively being there to make up the numbers (you aren't even used in the promo stuff). You are not really part of the elite as such if you are only there as an alternate, hence why the race is about the top 8 and not top 10.

I agree with Chrissie's line "They all want to "make it to the YEC", even those who may have little chance of winning it once they're there".
You get 100,000 dollars? just for winning a match at YEC so of course they want to make it and will squeak in last minute tournaments in order to qualify. It's not just about being part of the 'elite', you make some good money too.

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post #2544 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 03:22 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Technically Stosur only made it as an alternate. I doubt you get the same joy or buzz from effectively being there to make up the numbers (you aren't even used in the promo stuff). You are not really part of the elite as such if you are only there as an alternate, hence why the race is about the top 8 and not top 10.

I agree with Chrissie's line "They all want to "make it to the YEC", even those who may have little chance of winning it once they're there".
Sorry,I disagree;I don't think that there's ANY great psychological edge to being #8 over #9......UNLESS that #8 clinched the spot by playing high-quality tennis to get there.....And if the alternate were competitive in her YEC matches,while the original #8 were getting destroyed,would you STILL say that being the alternate was much worse??That's not really sound logic,IMO,and the alternate will get PLENTY of promo buzz if she gets past the RR stage.I also doubt that the alternate would feel inferior to the original #8 if there were only 10 or 15 points that separated them,especially if the alt. missed out on collecting some points due to injury during the season....even LESS so if the alt. dominated the H2H with the #8.

Like you,though,I agree with Chrissie-fan's line about the honor of making it...for Caroline or anyone else

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post #2545 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 03:48 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
...

Something else, although I might be stretching it. But I think it's wrong from a psychological point of view to be concerned about making Istanbul. It's not the right mentality for an athlete to think that way. Like "Maybe I'm not making Istanbul this year. Probably not. So I'd better have a plan B ready, because I'd really like to play Istanbul". An athlete shoud be a bit more determined and confident than that.
Caroline cant be thinking YEC now. This is one of her worst slumps ever. Lost 4 of 5 matches, 2 of them mandatories.
She does need psychological help, imo. Players dont suddenly go from winning the most matches on tour to winning one match every 2 tournaments they play

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post #2546 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 04:27 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Sorry,I disagree;I don't think that there's ANY great psychological edge to being #8 over #9......UNLESS that #8 clinched the spot by playing high-quality tennis to get there.....And if the alternate were competitive in her YEC matches,while the original #8 were getting destroyed,would you STILL say that being the alternate was much worse??That's not really sound logic,IMO,and the alternate will get PLENTY of promo buzz if she gets past the RR stage.I also doubt that the alternate would feel inferior to the original #8 if there were only 10 or 15 points that separated them,especially if the alt. missed out on collecting some points due to injury during the season....even LESS so if the alt. dominated the H2H with the #8.

Like you,though,I agree with Chrissie-fan's line about the honor of making it...for Caroline or anyone else
But if you are an alternate are you really classified as part of the event. You're not included in the field, you get in if someone gets injured, but by the time you get in, it's too late for you to qualify (remember the first tiebreaker is matches played). There's no real pride of being the alternate if you don't play a match. I wasn't really talking about a psychological edge. When the players are targeting making Istanbul at the end of year they are targeting being one of the top 8 though, not being number 9 and then getting in if someone gets injured. I don't really count going as an alternate as "making Istanbul".
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post #2547 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 04:30 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Something else, although I might be stretching it. But I think it's wrong from a psychological point of view to be concerned about making Istanbul. It's not the right mentality for an athlete to think that way. Like "Maybe I'm not making Istanbul this year. Probably not. So I'd better have a plan B ready, because I'd really like to play Istanbul". An athlete shoud be a bit more determined and confident than that.
This is very true, right now Caroline has just got to be thinking about playing better tennis. If she plays better tennis, she would make Istanbul anyway. Caroline right now is in danger of the summer completely escaping her.
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post #2548 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 04:49 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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She does need psychological help, imo.
Okay,I'm not saying that you're wrong,per se(after all,only a divine entity could EMPIRICALLY determine someone's mental state),yet I'm not so sure that that's really the solution here.It could be argued that an experienced sports counsellor would be able to help Caro's self-belief during difficult matches,but let's look at a couple of other big issues.

Many posters say that losing doesn't bother Caroline much anymore--that she seeks comfort with her bf and isn't motivated by the prospect of failure as many champions are.Does psychological counselling help people make a non-essential activity a priority in their lives??We can truly say that tennis is non-essential for Caro because she has earned enough money to go back to school,earn a degree of her choice and pursue an alternate career.Even if she retires from tennis,she'll still get no worse than occasional endorsement offers with her beauty and charm to supplement her financial state...and we're not even counting the additional income she could get from sound investments.

Another issue posters mention is lack of confidence against top players;if that's true,is that really a psychological problem,or is it a logical self-assessment by Caro of her game??Let's say that Caro's buddy Malou went into a match vs. Vika feeling certain that she was going to lose.I wouldn't call that a psychological failing...more like Malou being honest with herself.Obviously,the disparity isn't nearly as extreme in Caro's case but,even in her run as #1,she didn't rack up lots of victories against in-form,elite players that would establish any strong basis for self-confidence.As I conceded above,an experienced sports counsellor,with past success in similar cases,might be able to help Caroline change towards a more constructive mindset;however,her current state might only be a result of feeling frustration and futility...and those aren't automatically psychological illnesses.

To me,if Caro could just find a middle ground of success with her forehand--being able to win points with it at times while not depending on it to blow others off the court--then she'd have a lot more self-confidence.....And she'd REALLY feel more confident if her serve weren't so awful sometimes

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post #2549 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 05:05 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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But if you are an alternate are you really classified as part of the event. You're not included in the field, you get in if someone gets injured, but by the time you get in, it's too late for you to qualify (remember the first tiebreaker is matches played). There's no real pride of being the alternate if you don't play a match. I wasn't really talking about a psychological edge. When the players are targeting making Istanbul at the end of year they are targeting being one of the top 8 though, not being number 9 and then getting in if someone gets injured. I don't really count going as an alternate as "making Istanbul".
Again,I think you're splitting hairs w/o a strong foundation here.

First of all,you CAN play all 3 matches if,say,one of the other players withdraws before the matches even start;I've seen it happen more than once.It's also nowhere near prohibitive to qualify with only 2 matches played;it's QUITE common for 2 of the gals in a foursome to finish with 1-2(with one of them 0-3)in the RR stage,and an alternate could qualify with her 2 victories.

Further,if a player missed part of the season with injury...or even got off to a slow start and then found her form during the season,then she'd be VERY proud to make Istanbul as an alternate,especially if she believed that she was superior to at least one of the players who finished ahead of her in the standings.I seriously doubt that Stosur considered Errani a superior player,or worthier of being in Istanbul,than Sam was

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post #2550 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 9th, 2013, 05:34 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Again,I think you're splitting hairs w/o a strong foundation here.

First of all,you CAN play all 3 matches if,say,one of the other players withdraws before the matches even start;I've seen it happen more than once.It's also nowhere near prohibitive to qualify with only 2 matches played;it's QUITE common for 2 of the gals in a foursome to finish with 1-2(with one of them 0-3)in the RR stage,and an alternate could qualify with her 2 victories.

Further,if a player missed part of the season with injury...or even got off to a slow start and then found her form during the season,then she'd be VERY proud to make Istanbul as an alternate,especially if she believed that she was superior to at least one of the players who finished ahead of her in the standings.I seriously doubt that Stosur considered Errani a superior player,or worthier of being in Istanbul,than Sam was
When someone talks about qualifying for Istanbul they are almost always talking about finishing in the top 8, and not about maybe scraping in as an alternate. Of course is someone is injured before it even starts, this tends to get ignored. You don't really want to be relying on others injuries to qualify though.

I am not sure how the last line even fits your point. Stosur had no injury at all last year, and no matter what she thinks, Errani was quite clearly the superior player on the year in literally every measurement (results, head to head).
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