Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6 - Page 165 - TennisForum.com

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #2461 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 05:29 PM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,748
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitten Kitten View Post
in all honesty I thought she had no chances and sadly I was proved right...I still believe she ought to take some time off, work properly on her game and on her fitness, she's lost too much weight and you can see it in her rough power...
Well, she has no power whatsoever, but I don't think that has anything to do with weight loss. There are girls as light as a feather who hit much harder than Caroline.

Chrissie-fan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2462 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 05:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Coco Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bile yer heid
Posts: 72,772
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Caroline was too good for weight or trying to be more aggressive to have these kinds of results.
I'm starting to agree with people who think Caroline will retire soon. This is a shell of the player who was holding 9 titles 2 years ago
Maybe she's already pregnant

I think she's much better than that and she can get back to her best tennis, maybe that won't mean being world number 1 again or winning matches, but I know she can get back and I trust her

may your choices reflect your hopes not your fears.

Coco Hero is offline  
post #2463 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 05:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Trey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,191
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I hoping she get it together soon, At least make a decent run at Rome & RG, she should add Brussels Open as well too her Caly season IMO

S. Williams (21) ♦ V. Williams (7) ♦ Vika (2) ♦ Kvitová (2) ♦ Kerber (1) ♦ Muguruza (1) ♦ Ivanovic (1) ♦
C. Wozniacki ♦ A. Radwanska ♦ S. Halep ♦ B. Bencic ♦ S. Stephens ♦ M. Keys ♦ Domi Cibulkova ♦ G. Bouchard ♦ L. Robson ♦ N. Osaka ♦ J. Ostapenko ♦ A. Konjuh ♦ D. Vekic ♦ M. Puig ♦ V. Duval ♦ T. Townsend ♦ L. Chirico ♦ F. Abanda ♦ S. Samir ♦ F. Stollár ♦ T. Andrianjafitrimo
Trey is offline  
post #2464 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 05:58 PM
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,440
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
This is the mental side though. While Caro often makes players look good because of the lack of depth on her shots. There is also a massive intangible feature that won't show up on such analysis. That is that Caro of 2013 doesn't have the aura, the reputation of Caro of 2011. I wonder how many of Caro's opponents this year have gone on to court fearing what she brings to the court, a much lower % than in 2011 that is for sure. Her opponents probably are playing better, but that is because there is no fear factor anymore. There is not a lot Caro can do to work on that apart from winning tennis matches.
Yes but look at today's match. Just blown off court by a player who believed she could win and was playing much better than her usual self for a set and a half. But that was until midway into set 2. Caro could and should definitely have done better then when she was given the chance to turn it round. This is where detailed recording stats helps afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Such analysis will also surely just cough up the obvious areas of decline, which surely her team are aware of. Obviously you would be able to break it down and see the differences in stroke production between now and 2011, but actually fixing and coming up with the solutions is a different thing altogether.
It is really staggerring how often doing a spreadsheet with actual data comes up with answers entirely different to perceived wisdom and what is thought. Just to give an example: A spreadsheet of money spent on electricity revealed a totally different answer to perceived wisdom and what is expected. That revealed leaving things on like a circuit breaker plug plugged in and switched on that is believed to be nothing actually adds up and ends up being a really big contributer to the bills.

Also, it has been posted here (and I think this includes yourself) a theory that what is coming from her and her team is contradictory - working on more aggressive especially on forehand, working on back to what got her to #1 before, working on fitness. And then there's all sorts of advice comong from commentators and analysts. So what is Caro to think deep down when it gets tough in a match.

Hard analysed data that is recorded and can be seen is vital in knowing what you are trying to do is right. Sure she may not be able to correct it. But since there is no downside - I cannot understand your objection. In no situation is she worse off for knowing that this % reason here and this % there etc is why I've not got the results I had and the recorded figures show this and back this up. It is important that what she works on, what she thinks intellectually, and what she thinks deep down are in accord and based on a sound footing.

Did Annika Sorenstam when she recorded everything in spreadsheets as to what to improve - completely unheard of back then in the very late nineties. Did she say Oh - my coaches will know what needs improving so what's the point of this? It'll just throw up what they and I know already? No and she dominated at the top as the best female golfer 1998-1999 and 2001-2005(6).

Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters

Last edited by terjw; May 5th, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
terjw is offline  
post #2465 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 06:32 PM
Senior Member
 
ozza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,470
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
It is really staggering how often doing a spreadsheet with actual data comes up with answers entirely different to perceived wisdom and what is thought. Just to give an example: A spreadsheet of money spent on electricity revealed a totally different answer to perceived wisdom and what is expected. That revealed leaving things on like a circuit breaker plug plugged in and switched on that is believed to be nothing actually adds up and ends up being a really big contributor to the bills.

Also, it has been posted here (and I think this includes yourself) a theory that what is coming from her and her team is contradictory - working on more aggressive especially on forehand, working on back to what got her to #1 before, working on fitness. And then there's all sorts of advice comong from commentators and analysts. So what is Caro to think deep down when it gets tough in a match.

Hard analysed data that is recorded and can be seen is vital in knowing what you are trying to do is right. Sure she may not be able to correct it. But since there is no downside - I cannot understand your objection. In no situation is she worse off for knowing that this % reason here and this % there etc is why I've not got the results I had and the recorded figures show this and back this up. It is important that what she works on, what she thinks intellectually, and what she thinks deep down are in accord and based on a sound footing.

Did Annika Sorenstam when she recorded everything in spreadsheets as to what to improve - completely unheard of back then in the very late nineties. Did she say Oh - my coaches will know what needs improving so what's the point of this? It'll just throw up what they and I know already? No and she dominated at the top as the best female golfer 1998-1999 and 2001-2005(6).
I don't really have any objection because there is nothing to lose. There is some key difference to your examples. Caro's problem aren't statistical, so it's not I see what is wrong, therefore I can repair it. An example of this is any coach in the world knows Caro has the incorrect grip on her forehand volley, but she's never changed it. It's also not really numbers you want to be feeding your played, you want to be feeding it to the coach, because as a stand alone they don't really help the player solve the problem, they're likely to just cloud the player's mind further.

The difference between golf and tennis, in golf you completely control your own destiny, everything is under your control, your game pattern will stay mostly the same (though obviously differs for courses). In tennis this isn't true. For example if I'm understanding you correctly part of what you are talking about is find game patterns that work and get rid of those that don't, but this is going to differ depending on your opponents strengths and weaknesses.
ozza is online now  
post #2466 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 03:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LV-426
Posts: 35,501
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Impossible to say. Her current form (on clay) is immaterial to what she may be like on a hardcourt in August.
Pervak, Wang, and Muguruza say no. And Kuznetsova would like to get in a word as well.

Captain Matthew Gideon: I may have an idea.
Dureena Nafeel: I don't think you've recovered from your last good idea.
Captain Matthew Gideon: That would explain it.

Crusade: The Needs of Earth
Protoss is offline  
post #2467 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 04:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LV-426
Posts: 35,501
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
But they hand out WC like the guy with the shop sign on Oxford Street hands out business cards, no?

Surely a WAG with a famous golfer boyfriend can get a WC.
I believe there are two wildcards for Sofia. I've read that Ana Ivanovic is going to get one and it's a pretty safe bet that they'll give a wildcard to local Tsvetana Pironkova.

So it looks like Caro will have to win an international tournament to get back to Sofia or she could somehow make the real YEC (or be an alternate. Otherwise it'll be a couple of more weeks for Caro to watch golf err work productively on her tennis career in some fashion (such as a potential coach or racquet change).

Captain Matthew Gideon: I may have an idea.
Dureena Nafeel: I don't think you've recovered from your last good idea.
Captain Matthew Gideon: That would explain it.

Crusade: The Needs of Earth
Protoss is offline  
post #2468 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 04:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LV-426
Posts: 35,501
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Well, she has no power whatsoever, but I don't think that has anything to do with weight loss. There are girls as light as a feather who hit much harder than Caroline.
Ana Ivanovic used to have a lot more oomph on her forehand when she weighed more.

Do you agree that Caro's shots don't have as much oomph as they did a few years ago?

Captain Matthew Gideon: I may have an idea.
Dureena Nafeel: I don't think you've recovered from your last good idea.
Captain Matthew Gideon: That would explain it.

Crusade: The Needs of Earth
Protoss is offline  
post #2469 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 04:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,834
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
I believe there are two wildcards for Sofia. I've read that Ana Ivanovic is going to get one
They've already assumed that she won't win any tournaments and will require a WC to get in.....Sorry,that was just TOO easy

On to worthier,less-slutty topics: I was actually able to sympathize with Caroline back when she was getting so much advice via the various media on how she should change her game to win a Slam.However,players can sometimes start to lean on that defense mechanism--'everyone's always telling me what to do'--as a crutch.....and then they close themselves off to suggestions that really WOULD be helpful.I'm not saying that Caroline is doing that,per se,but she HAS sort of paraphrased the above refrain on a couple occasions

PARTY IN THE PANIC ROOM! Serena wins an undoubtedly clean #22

Congrats on Number Three, Kim! We need more of you in this world

Monica Puig, Guapa Teniista Numero Uno de las chicas latinas
bruce goose is offline  
post #2470 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 08:59 AM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,748
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
Ana Ivanovic used to have a lot more oomph on her forehand when she weighed more.

Do you agree that Caro's shots don't have as much oomph as they did a few years ago?
Yes, but everyone always says that it's due to her changing racquets. Whether there's any truth in that, I don't know. But I don't believe that you need to bulk up to hit a powerful shot. Just look at Caro's 2009 match in Sydney against Serena which she almost won. She hit the ball so crisply and with so much confidence back then. That Caro would have destroyed the Caro of today, and she definitely wasn't bulked up.


Chrissie-fan is offline  
post #2471 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 09:03 AM
Senior Member
 
marineblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,594
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitten Kitten View Post
Maybe she's already pregnant

I think she's much better than that and she can get back to her best tennis, maybe that won't mean being world number 1 again or winning matches, but I know she can get back and I trust her
So I'm not the only speculating about that?
I agree, she can get back to her best level and it's all up to her if she will realise her potential.
marineblue is offline  
post #2472 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 09:12 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,720
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
So I'm not the only speculating about that?
I agree, she can get back to her best level and it's all up to her if she will realise her potential.
If she really was pregnant, wouldn't she take a break from the tour? ...

It's not like money is an issue.

SUNSHINE

WTA #1 for 67 Weeks.
2010, 2011 WTA YE#1
TennisFan66 is offline  
post #2473 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Confidence is probably a big part of this.
She & her team made big mistakes. The way they tried to change her game took too much away from what made her successful.

That doesnt mean she cant be successful again.
There are about 10 weeks until the summer hardcourt season starts. Thats a lot of time, and Caro & her team should get together now & decide what she will do going forward. What style to play, what ways to train.
Thats what I would be doing now. I wouldnt panic or worry about the next 2 majors.
Just get settled. Get one plan, a plan that is doable, not some dream that she's going to have a Federer forehand.

They wasted 2 years, but she's still 22, and you have to think positive and prepare for a long term run at the top.
I still think she has the talent. I saw it in Dubai & IW

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
post #2474 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 09:53 AM
Senior Member
 
ozza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7,470
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

That is pretty big though goldenlox because by doing that your effectively sacrificing the year. To do that you have to basically agree within yourself that this year is a write off.
ozza is online now  
post #2475 of 5196 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 10:05 AM
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 97,315
                     
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I wonder what they're doing now. Its been 2 years, and eventually they have to accept that there are some parts of Caroline's game that cant be reworked successfully. How many years do they let her go on like this?
She still has plenty of time, but her team needs to smarten up

The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome