Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6 - Page 116 - TennisForum.com
 
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post #1726 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 08:03 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Honestly and from the bottom of my heart: I really feel for you guys seeing how much you still care, only to deal with this shit week in and week out. I just can't anymore, her decisions have angered me too much, following her became a chore that dragged me down and sucked the fun out of watching tennis.

Frankly, she doesn't deserve to have such fans anymore, not with her attitude. If she doesn't care, why should you? It's not her results but the mindset that is so incredibly frustrating. I really hope it doesn't get any worse...not for her sake but for you guys.

Edit: That I'm getting bad repped for this posting is so incredibly sad... jesus.
Eh, it does suck but speaking for myself I have pretty much divorced the Caroline that reached number one from the current Caroline. Maybe halfway through 2012 it became obvious that the old Caroline was gone and that she was a completely different player. If you can forget that she was once pretty close to winning a (hardcourt) slam and winning quite a few titles each year it is much less painful to see how far she has fallen.

Also, I just can't help finding her fall a little funny. Maybe that makes me a bad fan but I'm much happier laughing about where she is now. The alternative of feeling heartbroken with every loss isn't appealing to me. I'm clinging to the belief that if she misses the YEC or ends the year outside of the top ten that Piotr will step down as her coach. If Piotr does resign as her coach, which, realistically, seems incredibly unlikely, maybe she can at least improve her game and get back into the top five.

What I really find funny is that some of my negative posts circa late 2011 and into 2012 are starting to look tame compared to what some people are posting in here now. That really speaks to how far she has fallen and how much peoples attitudes have shifted. Back then some posters would throw rotten vegetables at me for some of the things I said but now I am one of the kinder posters here.

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post #1727 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 08:08 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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There is a degree of this. I think those limitations become harder to swallow though if you believe the player is capable of more and is not maximising their potential. Your game is not meant to stand still at 22 years old (and I am being generous using that term). Look how much ground Caro has lost on her peers, she led her generation 2 years ago, now she's pretty much the forgotten member. The questions used to be about Caro winning grand slams, now its moved on to Aga, Caro isn't even mentioned anymore.
Agreed. I think most of us are able to accept that Caroline struggles against top five players but she should be able to win much more often against players outside of the top thirty.

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post #1728 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 08:23 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I hope it doesn't get any worse neither but she need too get it through her head her dad has taken her as far as he could and she need a coach, I think the two coaches she had last year where not the best picks, I think she need a coach like Michael Mortensen, Thomas Hogstedt, Brad Gilbert, Heinz Gunthardt. Also she getting too old not too trust no one else beside her dad, & To me it be a shame for her too retire without a slam & not fulfil potential or try not too improve her game
This sort of decline can't only be blamed on her coach though, whether it's Piotr or not. There is no reason why a 22 year old tennis player should be that much worse than she was at 18-20 years of age when she had the same coach. It goes beyond the fact that technically her strokes haven't improved in the last couple of years. If she was ranked at #5 or 6 and didn't constantly lose to non-contenders one could make the case that she's doing the best she can, but that those above her have just improved too much for her to keep up. But as it is she isn't even playing top 10 level tennis anymore. She's just able to (barely) hold on because she still enjoys a relatively high seeding at tournaments which allow her to avoid top players in early rounds. But if she had to start the season ranked outside the top 50 there's no way that she would work her way back up to the top 10-15 with her current level of play. Despite whatever technical (or tactical for that matter) problems there may be her biggest problem is without a shadow of a doubt mental. I'm not saying that she isn't trying, of course she is. But winning is no longer a matter of life or death to Caro. There's no fire there anymore, no spunk. She's become an excellent opportunity for lower ranked players to get the (on paper) "best win of their careers."

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post #1729 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 08:31 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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This sort of decline can't only be blamed on her coach though, whether it's Piotr or not. There is no reason why a 22 year old tennis player should be that much worse than she was at 18-20 years of age when she had the same coach. It goes beyond the fact that technically her strokes haven't improved in the last couple of years. If she was ranked at #5 or 6 and didn't constantly lose to non-contenders one could make the case that she's doing the best she can, but that those above her have just improved too much for her to keep up. But as it is she isn't even playing top 10 level tennis anymore. She's just able to (barely) hold on because she still enjoys a relatively high seeding at tournaments which allow her to avoid top players in early rounds. But if she had to start the season ranked outside the top 50 there's no way that she would work her way back up to the top 10-15 with her current level of play. Despite whatever technical (or tactical for that matter) problems there may be her biggest problem is without a shadow of a doubt mental. I'm not saying that she isn't trying, of course she is. But winning is no longer a matter of life or death to Caro. There's no fire there anymore, no spunk. She's become an excellent opportunity for lower ranked players to get the (on paper) "best win of their careers."
I fully agree on that. That's why in all honesty I think what's the best for her now would be to fall out of the top of the ranking. I don't know how, because she's very unlikely to finish her season out of top 15 considering the very weak field of players being featured there and even considering the months ahead on her worse surfaces, she's still on top 8 of the race to YEC.
But IMO she needs a true test of her will to be a top player...like last year, she played the only sparks of good tennis when she had to demonstrate she wasn't just a non-contendent anymore (Miami beating Serena and making Masha sweat for the win) and then when she had to catch the top 10 back (winning Seul and Moscow), but those were little challenges, she kind of felt to have achieved easily.
She would never do that, but I think a break from tennis or at least from the tour would do her really well...like skipping the whole clay season and figure out what does she really want to do and how. Keeping a top 10 spot shouldn't be a priority, hence it wouldn't be a disgrace if she was to skip the few months on the dirt...if her ultimate goal is to make money just by hanging in there, then it's all fine...she still can win a couple of matches in a row here and there.
In addition to that, I still believe that the racket is playing an important role in the whole story...I may be sounding like a broken record, but Agassi changed racket while being world n1 and suddenly he couldn't win a match to save his life and he was on his way down, he didn't have a slam won by then and felt like everything was just going for the worse...he then switched to the old racket and immediatly started to win again and won his first slam...I am not saying that Caroline mathematically would do the same, but...

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post #1730 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 09:07 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Beyond The Baseline ‏@SI_BTBaseline
Wozniacki: "I played a player who didn't have anything to lose, so she just went for it and it went her way." #FCC2013

I know Caro always says something along these lines, but I sometimes wish she'd at least acknowledge there are problems in her game. The "my opponent was too good today" line is stretching pretty thin when you are continually losing to players ranked outside the top 60.
Yeah, same comment after loss to some random low ranked player. It points for me to an inability to acknowledge problems with her own game.

One can argue, it's a strength to not care what other people say, but if you cannot back it up, you look .... yeah, not so good.

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post #1731 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 09:13 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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One can argue, it's a strength to not care what other people say, but if you cannot back it up, you look .... yeah, not so good.
She shouldn't be disappointed with her current level because of what people say but because of pride coming from within herself.

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post #1732 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 10:22 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caroline Wozniacki

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post #1733 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 10:23 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Charleston was a good tournament for her in the past. She made the final in 2009. Injured in the 2010 SF. Won in 2011. Skipped it last year because Copenhagen was after Miami.
This is another in a line of 'worst' losses. Now she has losses to Pervak, Wang, Muguruza, Voegele and Sveta twice with only 1 QF win in 9 tournaments, and a QF w/o.

We have to face reality. She is currently not an elite player, with a team that is not helping her to improve.
Hard court & green clay like Charleston were her best results in her good days. Not going to get better on red clay & grass

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post #1734 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Not going to get better on red clay & grass
There is barely anything to defend, so ...

The fluke final in I/W gave false hope about a YEC spot. We're now firmly back to reality. Probably she'll win .. 2,500-3,000 points during 2013 season and will finish top 10-15 ..

If that's satisfying, good or not, is all relative.

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post #1735 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 10:56 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Charleston was a good tournament for her in the past. She made the final in 2009. Injured in the 2010 SF. Won in 2011. Skipped it last year because Copenhagen was after Miami.
This is another in a line of 'worst' losses. Now she has losses to Pervak, Wang, Muguruza, Voegele and Sveta twice with only 1 QF win in 9 tournaments, and a QF w/o.

We have to face reality. She is currently not an elite player, with a team that is not helping her to improve.
Hard court & green clay like Charleston were her best results in her good days. Not going to get better on red clay & grass

Good post. Agree 100%!

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post #1736 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 11:28 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
There is barely anything to defend, so ...

The fluke final in I/W gave false hope about a YEC spot. We're now firmly back to reality. Probably she'll win .. 2,500-3,000 points during 2013 season and will finish top 10-15 ..

If that's satisfying, good or not, is all relative.
Yes the only good thing is at this point last year she won 5 matches in her next 6 tournaments, it seems hard to possibly do worse this year. She is still #7 in the race, she has got to still be in touch come the US hard court season. It can't be like last year where she comes out of Wimbledon 1000 points off the #8 spot or she is in big trouble.
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post #1737 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 11:56 AM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Yes the only good thing is at this point last year she won 5 matches in her next 6 tournaments, it seems hard to possibly do worse this year. She is still #7 in the race, she has got to still be in touch come the US hard court season. It can't be like last year where she comes out of Wimbledon 1000 points off the #8 spot or she is in big trouble.
In order to remain in contention for the last YEC slot, she'll probably need to be at around 3,000 points post Wimbledon. That means winning 1,000-1,200 points during clay and grass.

A slam final would take care of that, but as that is as likely as one of us winning the Euro Jackpot, it means 150-250 points in 4-6 events. That means no surprise loses .. and well, Pervak, Wang, Mugurusa, Voegele, Kuzzy twice, says otherwise.

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post #1738 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

This was a reality check. After losses to Muguruza & Voegele, she's heading to the golf course to be a WAG.
Then comes red clay, where she isnt a contender in big premiers. And she's not a contender at al, in the next 2 majors.
So its from heading into the IW final a few weeks ago, to a place where she is just a soft seed in her section of the draw for the next several months. Highs to lows.

She has to work on her game, and try to be better than this when they get back to hard court again.

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post #1739 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 12:40 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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This was a reality check. After losses to Muguruza & Voegele, she's heading to the golf course to be a WAG.
Then comes red clay, where she isnt a contender in big premiers. And she's not a contender at al, in the next 2 majors.
So its from heading into the IW final a few weeks ago, to a place where she is just a soft seed in her section of the draw for the next several months. Highs to lows.

She has to work on her game, and try to be better than this when they get back to hard court again.
Is Caro really a contender at any big premiers right now (P5 and above)? It doesn't seem to matter, clay or hard court, she's not talked about winning any of them. History suggests she is even more vulnerable to lower ranked players on clay (though that seems hard to be possible right now).

The thing that I find worrying, you say this is a reality check. How many more reality checks does she need? If she can't see the reality now, what is it going to take?
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post #1740 of 5196 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2013, 12:44 PM
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I would really like to see her finally take a strong decision about her tennis and career, not the very timid attempts she's "tried" over the time.
I know it's not "her", it's clear to anyone with any hint of psychology that she's the kind of defensive personality, the kind that never leaves the safe road, the one that doesn't like changes and doesn't pursue those...but at this point she needs to do something big to change

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