On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen - Page 277 - TennisForum.com
 
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post #4141 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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While I was wondering which of the four remaining players would be the titlist come Saturday, it suddenly struck me that "titlist" looks rather like a naughty word!
Or when mis paisanos try to pronounce the word "beach"...but a perfect example came when my manager/friend told some American colleagues at a meeting,"We have to FOCUS!"....but she got shocked reactions at first b/c her pronunciation was "Tenemos que cogernos"...if you haven't figured it out yet,you may use google translator

PARTY IN THE PANIC ROOM! Serena wins an undoubtedly clean #22

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post #4142 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Not worth starting a thread over,but a worthwhile question for all of you: Do you respect a player less...or would you re-consider your fanship...if he/she were a blatant liar or had quit on the sport while nominally continuing his/her career?For example,if someone bragged about his/her fitness routine...but was actually quite lazy and didn't even have a coach for such fitness...and often got heavily winded following the first set...would you have significantly less respect for such a player due to his/her flagrant dishonesty??

For some perspective,my fellow Dinara fans knew it wasn't true when Dinarik claimed that the criticisms of her #1 ranking didn't bother her...or when she said that she wasn't nervous during a match while her facial expression was a dead giveaway.Those are still instances of dishonesty,but I'd describe them as emotional,reactive denials rather than scheming intents to deceive such as the example in the 1st paragraph

On the other hand,it's hard to accept when a player pretends to have deep passion for the sport yet usually looks lifeless on court while playing the bare minimum of tourneys.For a more extreme example,I'd stop cheering for a guy if he'd been found guilty of rape.I might acknowledge his talent but he could go to hell as far as I was concerned.Comments??Can you cheer for an unapologetic liar or for someone who has quit on the sport while still,technically,playing??

PARTY IN THE PANIC ROOM! Serena wins an undoubtedly clean #22

Congrats on Number Three, Kim! We need more of you in this world

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post #4143 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 07:10 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Thatís an excellent question.

About an overweight player, well itís her problem, but I have to say I find it unprofessional and disgraceful for her sport. A professional athlete, man or woman, should be fit (well, maybe not a sumo wrestler ).

Regarding her personality, honesty and integrity are extremely important to me. I could never stand for a blatant cheater, let alone a murderer. In my opinion, an athlete cannot be dissociated from her personality. If I canít respect her as a person, I canít root for her on court.

I donít really care if a player is lying to herself about her fitness or skills. Or about where she should stand in the ranking. And its fine is sheís lying to some fans or Medias in order to protect her private life.
But I expect her to be respectful towards her fans, the crowd and her opponents. I donít care is she breaks her rackets, kick a wall or talk to herself aloud, but I do care if sheís rude with the ballboys or threaten her opponent.

Fist clenching close to the body doesnít bother me, because itís a personal celebration. Showing your fist to your opponentís face does bother me, since I find it disrespectful. I must admit that I analyze these behaviors in regards to the player general attitude. I forgive a lot of things to a player if I think that she is a genuinely nice person (Ana Ivanovic, for example, whose antics doesnít bother me).

All in all, yes I can become a fan of a player if I appreciate her personality, as well as I can stop rooting for another player if I find her unpleasant.
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post #4144 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Frederik Nielsen and his British partner, Jonathan Marray won yet another 5-sets marathon, beating the American-French duo of James Cerretani and Edouard Roger-Vasselin 7-6(5), 7-6(4), 6-7(3), 2-6, 6-2 to secure a spot in the semifinals!
It's still unknown who their opponents will be but likely the legendary Bryan brothers, the defending champions and most winning doubles duo of all times!

Paul Annacone on Wozniacki: "Her biggest skill is to make you over play."

Last edited by C. W. Fields; Jul 4th, 2012 at 07:29 PM.
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post #4145 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Originally Posted by Achernar View Post
Thatís an excellent question.

About an overweight player, well itís her problem, but I have to say I find it unprofessional and disgraceful for her sport. A professional athlete, man or woman, should be fit (well, maybe not a sumo wrestler ).

Regarding her personality, honesty and integrity are extremely important to me. I could never stand for a blatant cheater, let alone a murderer. In my opinion, an athlete cannot be dissociated from her personality. If I canít respect her as a person, I canít root for her on court.

I donít really care if a player is lying to herself about her fitness or skills. Or about where she should stand in the ranking. And its fine is sheís lying to some fans or Medias in order to protect her private life.
But I expect her to be respectful towards her fans, the crowd and her opponents. I donít care is she breaks her rackets, kick a wall or talk to herself aloud, but I do care if sheís rude with the ballboys or threaten her opponent.

Fist clenching close to the body doesnít bother me, because itís a personal celebration. Showing your fist to your opponentís face does bother me, since I find it disrespectful. I must admit that I analyze these behaviors in regards to the player general attitude. I forgive a lot of things to a player if I think that she is a genuinely nice person (Ana Ivanovic, for example, whose antics doesnít bother me).

All in all, yes I can become a fan of a player if I appreciate her personality, as well as I can stop rooting for another player if I find her unpleasant.
Thanks for your thoughtful,introspective post

PARTY IN THE PANIC ROOM! Serena wins an undoubtedly clean #22

Congrats on Number Three, Kim! We need more of you in this world

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post #4146 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Not worth starting a thread over,but a worthwhile question for all of you: Do you respect a player less...or would you re-consider your fanship...if he/she were a blatant liar or had quit on the sport while nominally continuing his/her career?For example,if someone bragged about his/her fitness routine...but was actually quite lazy and didn't even have a coach for such fitness...and often got heavily winded following the first set...would you have significantly less respect for such a player due to his/her flagrant dishonesty??

For some perspective,my fellow Dinara fans knew it wasn't true when Dinarik claimed that the criticisms of her #1 ranking didn't bother her...or when she said that she wasn't nervous during a match while her facial expression was a dead giveaway.Those are still instances of dishonesty,but I'd describe them as emotional,reactive denials rather than scheming intents to deceive such as the example in the 1st paragraph

On the other hand,it's hard to accept when a player pretends to have deep passion for the sport yet usually looks lifeless on court while playing the bare minimum of tourneys.For a more extreme example,I'd stop cheering for a guy if he'd been found guilty of rape.I might acknowledge his talent but he could go to hell as far as I was concerned.Comments??Can you cheer for an unapologetic liar or for someone who has quit on the sport while still,technically,playing??
Once I support someone I'm extremely loyal and very forgiving and tolerant of whatever behavior he or she might be involved in. Being cocky or trash talk or even gamesmanship doesn't bother me much. Tennis is also a mental game and players try to get an edge anyway they can. That's competition. Mind you, that doesn't mean that I seek those type of players out to be a fan of. Caroline, Chrissie and Roger for example always demonstrate perfect sportsmanship and I admire them for it. But I like the more fiery characters - the so-called "bad boys and girls" of the game as well, at least some of them. But everything has it's limits, and of course I could never support a rapist, a murderer, a racist, a fascist or someone like that. But the ones we call the bad boys and girls of the game are more a bit naughty rather than rotten to the core I think. You have introverts and extraverts, laid-back people and nervous people. What is perceived as good or bad behavior on court is often just a result of those character traits.

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post #4147 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Originally Posted by C. W. Fields View Post
Frederik Nielsen and his British partner, Jonathan Marray won yet another 5-sets marathon, beating the American-French duo of James Cerretani and Edouard Roger-Vasselin 7-6(5), 7-6(4), 6-7(3), 2-6, 6-2 to secure a spot in the semifinals!
It's still unknown who their opponents will be but likely the legendary Bryan brothers, the defending champions and most winning doubles duo of all times!
I'm afraid it's going to end at the SF but it's quite amazing what Frederik and Jonathan has achieved here. When Frederik won 3rd round the other day, he became the first Danish quarter finalist at Wimbledon since his grandfather in the fifties (excluding juniors)! And now he's a semi finalist. This is huge for his doubles ranking and could in fact give him and Caro a direct entry to mixed doubles at USO, AO, FO, and perhaps even Wimbledon next year (if she wants to play mixed)! Great achievement.
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post #4148 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Once I support someone I'm extremely loyal and very forgiving and tolerant of whatever behavior he or she might be involved in. Being cocky or trash talk or even gamesmanship doesn't bother me much. Tennis is also a mental game and players try to get an edge anyway they can. That's competition. Mind you, that doesn't mean that I seek those type of players out to be a fan of. Caroline, Chrissie and Roger for example always demonstrate perfect sportsmanship and I admire them for it. But I like the more fiery characters - the so-called "bad boys and girls" of the game as well, at least some of them. But everything has it's limits, and of course I could never support a rapist, a murderer, a racist, a fascist or someone like that. But the ones we call the bad boys and girls of the game are more a bit naughty rather than rotten to the core I think. You have introverts and extraverts, laid-back people and nervous people. What is perceived as good or bad behavior on court is often just a result of those character traits.
So glad you changed your mind about leaving a while back.It doesn't bother me that much if a player doesn't train hard cuz I can sympathize with someone's antipathy to the rigors of training.However,it's difficult for me to stomach when that player goes out of his/her way to emphasize/promote how committed he/she supposedly is to the team/sport...when it's plain as day that he/she is in poor shape.If it's just an isolated statement,OK but,when it happens repeatedly,it makes me wanna invite that player to stick that crap where the sun doesn't shine.When frequent lies are absurdly unbelievable,the athlete comes off as a cheap phony to me

PARTY IN THE PANIC ROOM! Serena wins an undoubtedly clean #22

Congrats on Number Three, Kim! We need more of you in this world

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post #4149 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 06:39 AM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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I'm afraid it's going to end at the SF but it's quite amazing what Frederik and Jonathan has achieved here. When Frederik won 3rd round the other day, he became the first Danish quarter finalist at Wimbledon since his grandfather in the fifties (excluding juniors)! And now he's a semi finalist. This is huge for his doubles ranking and could in fact give him and Caro a direct entry to mixed doubles at USO, AO, FO, and perhaps even Wimbledon next year (if she wants to play mixed)! Great achievement.
Actually, Torben Ulrich reached the Doubles SF at Wimbledon in 1959 (with Ladislav Legenstein).
Funny thing, an article in Jyllands-Posten reads as though it's a fact that LÝchte/Marray will be playing The Bryans in SF, even though the twins haven't played their QF yet!
http://jyllands-posten.dk/sport/ande...cle4743331.ece

Paul Annacone on Wozniacki: "Her biggest skill is to make you over play."
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post #4150 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 07:44 AM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Actually, Torben Ulrich reached the Doubles SF at Wimbledon in 1959 (with Ladislav Legenstein).
Thanks, didn't know that. I just trusted what was said in this interview with Frederik & Marray. What's perhaps even more surprising, is that Marray is the first British man since 1977 to reach doubles SF at Wimbledon.
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post #4151 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Aga seems like a sweet gal much of the time(don't know her personally,of course),but it's hard to envision ANY realistic,winning scenario for her Saturday other than Umpire Killer twisting her ankle or something during the match

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post #4152 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 04:31 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Despite her reputation in GM, Radwanska seems to be a really nice girl, friendly and charming. Unfortunately, I don’t reckon she’ll be a challenge for Serena. I like the Polish a lot more than Kerber, but I was half rooting for the German, in order to have a real final. Anyway, we’ll see Saturday. At least, the semifinal between Radwanska and Kerber was a high quality match. I really enjoyed it.
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post #4153 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 04:42 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Despite her reputation in GM, Radwanska seems to be a really nice girl, friendly and charming. Unfortunately, I don’t reckon she’ll be a challenge for Serena. I like the Polish a lot more than Kerber, but I was half rooting for the German, in order to have a real final. Anyway, we’ll see Saturday. At least, the semifinal between Radwanska and Kerber was a high quality match. I really enjoyed it.
You're a new TF member, so I may just as well inform you of the fact that a players reputation at GM means absolutely nothing. Despite some good posters it's mostly a cesspool of negativity and hate.

I like Aga myself and I wouldn't mind if she ended up winning the whole thing, but I agree with you. The most likely scenario is that Aga will be a spectator at her own Wimbledon final with Serena's serves and service return winners flying by her for fifty minutes before Serena puts her out of her misery with ace number twenty. I really hope I'm wrong.

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post #4154 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Kerber and her family are originally of Polish origin,actually(prior to their move to Germany)

Was thinking about the old one-serve rule(as tennis had in the beginning)...and how it might seriously level the playing field between Serena and other top players.If she didn't have any second serve to fall back on,she'd surely have to reduce her velocity or else lose lots of quick points on missed serves.In principle,I'm opposed to this sort of socialist b.s. punishment b/c it penalizes someone for having great skill: Serena usually has nice accuracy in addition to her speed of serve.However,you'd have a lot more classic tennis rallies if someone couldn't end points right away with one initial shot.Also,there are lots of one-dimensional bums on the ATP tour who'd become obsolete with the return of the one-serve rule...and THAT wouldn't be a bad thing....It's a moot point,though,cuz the sport will NEVER revert back to the old rule

PARTY IN THE PANIC ROOM! Serena wins an undoubtedly clean #22

Congrats on Number Three, Kim! We need more of you in this world

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post #4155 of 5049 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
You're a new TF member, so I may just as well inform you of the fact that a players reputation at GM means absolutely nothing. Despite some good posters it's mostly a cesspool of negativity and hate.

I like Aga myself and I wouldn't mind if she ended up winning the whole thing, but I agree with you. The most likely scenario is that Aga will be a spectator at her own Wimbledon final with Serena's serves and service return winners flying by her for fifty minutes before Serena puts her out of her misery with ace number twenty. I really hope I'm wrong.
Oh but the reputation of players in GM does mean something. Among the most hatred players in GM you find Ivanovic, Radwanksa, Lisicki and Wozniacki. All of them are among the nicest players on tour. There is a trend here. Most of the time, if a player is successful, likeable, friendly and genuinely nice, she’ll be hated on GM. Especially if she’s not a ballbasher.
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