Disposablehero here are some of Clijsters' draws - TennisForum.com
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 05:36 AM Thread Starter
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Disposablehero here are some of Clijsters' draws

Now that I have time to post some of Clijsters draws for this year we can get down to the nitty gritty.

At AO 2003

Serena QF: Tanasugarn, Danilidou, Dechy, Maleeva, Bovina, Shaugnessy, Seles

Clijsters QF: Majoli, Coetzer, Pistolesi, Rubin, Dementieva, Fernandez, Myskina

Capriati QF: Husarova, Kremer, Stevenson, Davenport, Panova, Srebotnik, Henin

Venus QF: Raymond, Suarez, Farina Elia, Schnyder, Sugiyama, C. Martinez, Hantuchova

Venus and Clijsters draws are a toss-up for whose is the weakest here. Capriati's is the toughest.


At Miami,

Clijsters QF: Suarez, Raymond, Pistolesi, Dokic, Dechy, Likhotseva, Hantuchova

Serena QF: Panova, Dementieva, Bovina, Stevenson, Majoli, Davenport

Venus QF: Mikaelin, Shaugnessy, Maleeva, Myskina, Granville, Sugiyama, Capriati

Henin: QF: Tanasugarn, Coetzer, Danilidou, Rubin, Farina Elia, Fernandez, Mauresmo

Clijsters easily had the weakest. Henin's was the toughest, followed by Venus.


At French Open

Serena QF: Fernandez, Shaughnessy, Sugiyama, Hantuchova, Pistolesi, Likhotseva, Mauresmo

Henin QF: Stevenson, Schnyder, Danilidou, Myskina, Raymond, Granville, Rubin

Venus QF: Farina Elia, Zvonareva, Dementieva, Seles, Coetzer, Schiavone, Capriati

Clijsters QF: Suarez, Bovina, Maleeva, Dokic, C. Martinez, Dechy, Davenport

It's hard to choose between Henin and Clijsters, but probably Henin because Clijsters has a couple good clay courters in her QF. Serena is slightly ahead of Venus for the toughest.



At Wimbledon

Serena QF: Granville, Shaughnessy, Dementieva, Myskina, Martinez, Tanasugarn, Capriati

Henin QF: Likhotseva, Raymond, Danilidou, Dokic, Bovina, Stevenson and Kuznetsova(due to Mauresmo's withdrawal)

Venus QF: Petrova, Schnyder, Zvonareva, Hantuchova, Coetzer, Chladkova, Davenport

Clijsters QF: Pistolesi, Dechy, Sugiyama, Maleeva, Serna, Farina Elia, Rubin

Before the withdrawal of Mauresmo, Clijsters had the easiest. Venus' was the toughest followed closely by Serena's.


I am posting the biggies for now, but others can be analyzed at your word.

Last edited by Knizzle; Aug 18th, 2003 at 05:52 AM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:10 AM
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I am not going to takes side or make an assessment, but I think this discussion will take nowhere.

Why? because you are showing facts, right, I haven't checked the information you posted but I trust it's right.

However, it's the way you analyze that information in what you will never agree with DH or others, you said that in xxx tournament Clijsters had an easier draw than Justine, but that's a subjective appreciation.

For example, at the FO Justine had to face Schnyder before the quarters, and that, on clay is IMO one of the toughest draws you can get, but Patty can be off and then it becomes an easy draw.

Also, some players have problems with particular player, with not special reason, example, Justine seems to always have problems with Elena Dementieva, no matter the surface, the tournament or how each is playing, while maybe Kim has no problems with her at all, so Dementieva might be a tough draw for Justine and an easy draw for Kim.

Unless there a very obvious case, generally it is very difficult to say what draw is harder, it depends on many things.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon
I am not going to takes side or make an assessment, but I think this discussion will take nowhere.

Why? because you are showing facts, right, I haven't checked the information you posted but I trust it's right.

However, it's the way you analyze that information in what you will never agree with DH or others, you said that in xxx tournament Clijsters had an easier draw than Justine, but that's a subjective appreciation.

For example, at the FO Justine had to face Schnyder before the quarters, and that, on clay is IMO one of the toughest draws you can get, but Patty can be off and then it becomes an easy draw.

Also, some players have problems with particular player, with not special reason, example, Justine seems to always have problems with Elena Dementieva, no matter the surface, the tournament or how each is playing, while maybe Kim has no problems with her at all, so Dementieva might be a tough draw for Justine and an easy draw for Kim.

Unless there a very obvious case, generally it is very difficult to say what draw is harder, it depends on many things.
That's why you look at who are the toughest players in general, not necessarily matchup problems. This was just to illustrate that Clijsters has had easy draws this year. DH didn't seem to think so, so we decided to look at the facts.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knizzle
That's why you look at who are the toughest players in general, not necessarily matchup problems. This was just to illustrate that Clijsters has had easy draws this year. DH didn't seem to think so, so we decided to look at the facts.
I know one fact. you have posted nothing but pure hate for weeks about Kim Clijsters.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:26 AM
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I'll give you full credit. Few of the people who make it their hobby to crap on Kim dare venture into the realm of proof and example. And I will agree with you on your analysis of a lot of those quarters. However, as you showed, Kim's were not always the weakest. And if you are one of the top 4 players in the world, your Semifinal opponent is at least as important and your first 5 together. At AO and Miami Kim got the toughest Semifinal opponent, at RG and WI she got the toughest her ranking would allow. (supposedly, since Justine was actually more dangerous than Venus at RG)

But the point of all the bitching about these supposed "Cake" draws given to Kim is some sort of alleged "Anti-Williams Conspiracy". If there is a conspiracy, how come the Williams have managed to make opposite sides of the draw at 6 consecutive Slams where they were not guaranteed to do so? Why don't they put them together and guarantee a Non-Williams (maybe Kim) in the Final?

Because there is no conspiracy.

You have to answer for Santino, Carlo.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instant
I know one fact. you have posted nothing but pure hate for weeks about Kim Clijsters.
Go back and check my posts about Clijsters again. I don't know how many times I have to say that I like Kimmy, but I will keep saying it until people like you realize. I shouldn't do this, but maybe I will have to bring up old threads just for you.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disposablehero
I'll give you full credit. Few of the people who make it their hobby to crap on Kim dare venture into the realm of proof and example. And I will agree with you on your analysis of a lot of those quarters. However, as you showed, Kim's were not always the weakest. And if you are one of the top 4 players in the world, your Semifinal opponent is at least as important and your first 5 together. At AO and Miami Kim got the toughest Semifinal opponent, at RG and WI she got the toughest her ranking would allow. (supposedly, since Justine was actually more dangerous than Venus at RG)

But the point of all the bitching about these supposed "Cake" draws given to Kim is some sort of alleged "Anti-Williams Conspiracy". If there is a conspiracy, how come the Williams have managed to make opposite sides of the draw at 6 consecutive Slams where they were not guaranteed to do so? Why don't they put them together and guarantee a Non-Williams (maybe Kim) in the Final?

Because there is no conspiracy.

You never heard me say anything was an anti-Williams conspiracy because the WS have had a couple easy draws too. It just seems like every one of Clijsters draws have been easy. As I have said before, it's not her fault, but it's the truth and that's the way it has been. Actually I think it hurts her more than it helps her because I think she has experienced drastic changes in the level of her opponents from the first five rounds to the SF. The easy opponents don't prepare her for what's ahead. I think the draws are fixed to put the WS on opposite sides, I have always thought it in the past 2 years because a WS final means money, and with the Belgians being so good WS/Belgians semifinals have tournament directors drooling. Then they get to possibly have an all WS or Belgian final, or another WS/Belgian matchup so it's all good for them. Whether Clijsters is getting draws fixed for her benefit I don't know, I will assume she isn't, but that doesn't take away from the fact that she has had it easier this year. 14 consecutive semifinals, is it a coincidence??
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:38 AM
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really are some people that stubborn to prove their point that a new thread needs to be started about it?

its not a big deal. its only the internet.

and the toughness of a draw all depends on perception. ...something that varies with every individual and cannot be forced upon anyone else.


....This is fucked up, fucked up....

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It should be obvious, but it's not.

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You just crush yourself and walk away
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Cause I'm right here in your arms today
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I'm for spare parts, broken up.




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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knizzle
Go back and check my posts about Clijsters again. I don't know how many times I have to say that I like Kimmy, but I will keep saying it until people like you realize. I shouldn't do this, but maybe I will have to bring up old threads just for you.
Really?
You are just trying to FORCE what you believe to be right on to other people

IMO, Serena had the easiet draw at the AO, Kim in Miami, Serena at French, Venus at Wimbledon and nothing you can say will make it any different.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instant
Really?
You are just trying to FORCE what you believe to be right on to other people

IMO, Serena had the easiet draw at the AO, Kim in Miami, Serena at French, Venus at Wimbledon and nothing you can say will make it any different.
No, I'm being objective. If someone disagrees with me after we get the facts straight then fine. No skin off my back. Especially those who come off as closed-minded.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2003, 10:26 AM
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serena had an easier draw at the french.

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