But for the stabbing how many GS titles would Monica have won? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wherever Maggie goes.
Posts: 3,293
                     
But for the stabbing how many GS titles would Monica have won?

I know this has been discussed zillions of times on the board as well as everywhere where there is tennis. But the recent "Graf the best ever?" debate really made me again wonder about Monica's without-the-stabbing accomplishments. I know some of yous are sick and tired of those "what if" talks. But what the heck, this is one of the biggest "what if"s in tennis and should be kept on discussed for the many many years to come.

Personality, without the incident, Graf wouldn't be reckoned as great a player as she is and of course Monica would have got much more GS titles under her belt. Her best time as a tennis player was ruined by that German lunatic.
GoGoMaggie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: b/n 1 & 3
Posts: 3,628
 
Thanks for starting a steffi vs seles thread. There was a scarsity of those type of threads in the GM recently.
Hulet is offline  
post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:01 PM
Senior Member
 
irma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: the netherlands
Posts: 13,635
 
now I am in it anyway. steffi would have been seen as greater as she is now. since people would not have made excuses for 71 (of course she had won more but I stay with that number) titles she won

monica would have bashed for not playing doubles even if she had won 30 slams and people had claimed that she is not the greatest because of that. especially people who claim she was on her way

In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
Through the desert of the truth
To the river so deep
We all end in the ocean
We all start in the streams
We're all carried along
By the river of dreams
In the middle of the night
irma is offline  
post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,458
                     
........no one will ever know.. perhaps, the number of slams between Steffi and MONICA would have been reversed

but we'll never know..

perhaps Monica would be still dominating now, if it weren't for the tragedy.
tyk101 is offline  
post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:09 PM
Senior Member
 
irma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: the netherlands
Posts: 13,635
 
if monica had still dominated then tennis had been death. that had not been monica's fault but if the same player had dominated for 12 years with 3 or 4 slams a year then nobody had watched anymore

In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
Through the desert of the truth
To the river so deep
We all end in the ocean
We all start in the streams
We're all carried along
By the river of dreams
In the middle of the night
irma is offline  
post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,430
                     
...mistery ...I guess few more...
tennisjam is offline  
post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Paneru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 22,129
                     
I totally respect all that Steffi has accomplished and she seems like a nice enough person. However, that being said, the fact of Monica's incident has always put Steffi with an aterisk(*) in my mind.
*Would she have done as much if Monica's incident never occured and what makes it worse(through no fault of Steffi's), the assalent was a professed Graf fan.

Bottomline,
Monica was a great champion.
Steffi was a great Champion.

Would Monica be greater than Steffi if not for the incident?
The world will never know.
Paneru is offline  
post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,863
                     
Monica would have still had trouble winning Wimbledon, and Steffi may have won as many or more (draws would have been different if Monica had been in the game so Steffi wouldn't have faced McNeil in the 1st round).

Monica would certainly have won the French and Australian 1-2 more times (at least). Steffi was getting better, though, and would have done better than some people think.

I think Seles would have ended with 14-15 majors, and Steffi would have ended with 18 majors.

Prayed through the nights
felt so alone
suffered from alienation
carried the weight on my own
Had to be strong
so I believed
and now I know I've succeeded
in finding the place I conceived
jenglisbe is offline  
post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 02:48 PM
Jem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,277
                     
We'll never know, and the debate is pointless. My personal belief is that Monica was on her way to becoming the all-time great of the game, but who knows? I think it's safe to say that Monica's Slam total would have been higher and Steffi's lower, but you never know. The whole affair was terrible, tragic and woefully handled by the powers that be in tennis, but worse things have happened. And I say that as one of Monica's all-time fans. She was the first player to really capture my attention since Chris Evert.
Jem is offline  
post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,257
                     
Eight.

She'd have gotten bored with tennis, retired at the end of 1992, and become a movie star. She never would have won OZ '96.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 03:17 PM
Love the Legends of Tennis
 
tennisvideos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 4,447
                     
Once again I agree totally with you Jem. Monica was the first player to really capture my attention since Evert as well. I loved her game and her positive attitude and it was a tragedy of epic proportions what befell her.

There is little doubt that Monica would have racked up a number of French, US and Aussie Open titles, and I think she would have been able to crack it at Wimbledon. I mean she beat Martina there, one of the greatest grass court players in history, so she was certainly capable of beating anyone on grass.

I think that Monica was headed in the direction of being one of the greatest ever, and she is still a legend in my mind. Her record has been damaged though which is a crying shame. There are many great tennis historians, analysts, players and commentators who think that Monica was destined to be one of the all time greats but for the stabbing.

Anyway, we shall never know, and that makes me sad. I just hope Monica is happy with her life when she retires from tennis. She deserves the best, she has been so gracious considering all she has been through. An inspiration to me and millions more.
tennisvideos is offline  
post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 03:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 7,274
                     
isnt this another of those "bullshit" threads I keep hearing so much about.

The WTA Women of Wonder Featuring....The Goddess: Venus Williams The Glamazon: Serena Williams The Lioness: Jennifer Capriati The High Priestess: Monica Seles The Saint: Kim Clijsters The Phoenix: Chanda Rubin The Bon Vivant: Amelie Mauresmo The Titan: Lindsay Davenport The Courtesan: Anna Kournikova The Exile: Martina Hingis The Sorceress: Anatasia Myskina The Minx: Maria Sharapova
Cybelle Darkholme is offline  
post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 04:45 PM
Senior Member
 
DA FOREHAND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 8,945
                     
"There is little doubt that Monica would have racked up a number of French, US and Aussie Open titles, and I think she would have been able to crack it at Wimbledon. I mean she beat Martina there, one of the greatest grass court players in history, so she was certainly capable of beating anyone on grass."


There is doubt that she'd rack up several more French and A.O., but there is def. doubt about the US Open, and surely Wimbledon.

I think the Grand Slam totals wouldn't be as lopsided, but Steffi would probably have more. Monica missed 10 slams, Steffi won six of those. Take away those six and Steffi's total still stands at 16, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have won at least 3 of the six which gives her 19. Any results after 95 US Open stand. I'd say Monica would have around 15-16 slams.

Even a fit and playing out of her mind Monica got her clock cleaned by Venus Williams (Acura Classic).
.

"Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated" - George Bernard Shaw




"And for the best of the teen-agers who followed her, and who occasionally referred to her as over the hill, Graf had a ready answer: against top-ranked Martina Hingis, Graf wound up 7-2. Graf's stirring 4-6, 7-5, 6-2 throttling of Hingis at the French Open final this June was perhaps the most emphatic parting shot the game has ever seen. "


DA FOREHAND is offline  
post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 05:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,204
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by DA FOREHAND
"There is little doubt that Monica would have racked up a number of French, US and Aussie Open titles, and I think she would have been able to crack it at Wimbledon. I mean she beat Martina there, one of the greatest grass court players in history, so she was certainly capable of beating anyone on grass."


There is doubt that she'd rack up several more French and A.O., but there is def. doubt about the US Open, and surely Wimbledon.

I think the Grand Slam totals wouldn't be as lopsided, but Steffi would probably have more. Monica missed 10 slams, Steffi won six of those. Take away those six and Steffi's total still stands at 16, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have won at least 3 of the six which gives her 19. Any results after 95 US Open stand. I'd say Monica would have around 15-16 slams.

Even a fit and playing out of her mind Monica got her clock cleaned by Venus Williams (Acura Classic).
.
You're assuming that if Monica wasn't stabbed, that 1995 & 1996 would have played like they did after the stabbing. Monica with no stabbing could have dominated those years, she wouldn't have been making a "comeback". So Steffi won more then the 6 due to the stabbing, she won 10 (I'm taking off the 1999 one because it was too further down the line). Monica had a shot at dominating at least between 1993-1996 with no stabbing.
selesrules is offline  
post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2003, 05:05 PM
Senior Member
 
mauresmofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 11,861
                     
Monica would have burnt herself out and turned her attentions to Curling of which she would be 3 time Olympic Champion and 5 time world champion - I swear I saw it in the tea leaves this morning!

RIP Elena Baltacha, thank you for dedicating your life to a sport we all love. You'll be missed but never forgotten.
mauresmofan is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome