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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 2003, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Jenn vs Kim

The two most risk-averse of the elite. There will be a lot of shots that land in the middle of the court, near the service line. Neither usually is the player that starts forcing the extremes. Neither of them even try the high-difficulty short angle setup for a future winner. They can both DO it. When forced. But neither, when playing well, will ever initiate anything that risky.

Jenn's in a tough spot. It's easy to say that she should 'be more aggressive', and 'go for her shots', but to challenge Kim's range, you have to paint the lines. She just moves side-to-side too well. And Jenn NEVER hits near the lines. If she starts trying now, her number of unforced errors will go through the ceiling. She's got to get Kim on a string, and move her to places that leave easy winners. And then smack the hell out of those 'easy' winners, cause otherwise Kim will run them down. That cerebral stuff isn't Jenn's game. Archtypically, she's more streetfighter than chessplayer.

Kim has an easier time because Jenn is clearly not in the condition that won 3 GS singles titles. If it gets to 10-10 in the third, it's Jenn who will crack this time. What Kim has to do is not get frustrated. With Kim, sometimes she falls into believing that 'be more aggressive' means 'hit harder'. With Kim, the 'be more aggressive' that works best is 'move FORWARD, stupid'. When she's going well, everything she does has an aggressive forwardness to it, even it she's not hitting hard. The trap for Kim is when Jenn gets in a groove and starts to overpower Kim. Kim has to weather the storm, and keep fighting it by continuing to move forward, so she's already on top of every short ball. Too often, Kim falls into a baseline slugging exchange. Look at her last match vs Venus. Venus got Kim into forward exchange and just rallied and Kim started hitting harder and harder and hit more and more errors.

Kim can be pulled out of her game by a clever opponent. 'Clever' is never how I've ever described Jenn's game.

Script 17B, with characters straight out of Centrasl Casting. 'This is savvy vet vs young upstart, on the most elite level in the game. Take one.'

Let's be honest. Kim is the least accomplished of the elite players. Also the youngest. And how much more perfect than she could we cast in the role of 'young upstart/elite'?

You can't cast Venus as 'savvy vet', cause you eventually have to cast a '#1 contender'. (Sports movies mostly being the same plot. Certainly if you get a sequel.)

Lindsay would be fine too, but Jenn comes with a pretty big fan base, important to TV. I'm not sure who's balls at ESPN she's got a string around, if Jenn's in a quasi-important match, they show it.

This could be a good match, but I don't see Jennifer going far enough outside her comfort zone to win.

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 2003, 09:04 PM
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I am not buying that Kim is a upstart the kid has been around for awhile. 20 years old is not young in tennis.

Kim has been around long enough. Didn't seh start her game when back in 1999?

Anyway, Jen has the potentional to blow Kim off the court but it will be hard to accomplish.

Hell as you can see this is a great match-up with either one being the victor.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 2003, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Marie
Kim has been around long enough. Didn't seh start her game when back in 1999?
Didn't Venus start in October of 1994? When did she win her first Slam again? Any idea how old she was at the time?

You have to answer for Santino, Carlo.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 2003, 09:12 PM
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All i can say is kick her a$$ jen!

Jennifer Capriati: "I feel like my old self again"
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Can't call the outcome a surprise. toward the end, Jenn was reduced to going for outright winners from the baseline. Not her game. But Kim had the edge in cardio.

Jenn said she 'found out what it was like to play myself'. Pretty much sums it up.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
The two most risk-averse of the elite. There will be a lot of shots that land in the middle of the court, near the service line. Neither usually is the player that starts forcing the extremes. Neither of them even try the high-difficulty short angle setup for a future winner. They can both DO it. When forced. But neither, when playing well, will ever initiate anything that risky.

Jenn's in a tough spot. It's easy to say that she should 'be more aggressive', and 'go for her shots', but to challenge Kim's range, you have to paint the lines. She just moves side-to-side too well. And Jenn NEVER hits near the lines. If she starts trying now, her number of unforced errors will go through the ceiling. She's got to get Kim on a string, and move her to places that leave easy winners. And then smack the hell out of those 'easy' winners, cause otherwise Kim will run them down. That cerebral stuff isn't Jenn's game. Archtypically, she's more streetfighter than chessplayer.

Kim has an easier time because Jenn is clearly not in the condition that won 3 GS singles titles. If it gets to 10-10 in the third, it's Jenn who will crack this time. What Kim has to do is not get frustrated. With Kim, sometimes she falls into believing that 'be more aggressive' means 'hit harder'. With Kim, the 'be more aggressive' that works best is 'move FORWARD, stupid'. When she's going well, everything she does has an aggressive forwardness to it, even it she's not hitting hard. The trap for Kim is when Jenn gets in a groove and starts to overpower Kim. Kim has to weather the storm, and keep fighting it by continuing to move forward, so she's already on top of every short ball. Too often, Kim falls into a baseline slugging exchange. Look at her last match vs Venus. Venus got Kim into forward exchange and just rallied and Kim started hitting harder and harder and hit more and more errors.

Kim can be pulled out of her game by a clever opponent. 'Clever' is never how I've ever described Jenn's game.

Script 17B, with characters straight out of Centrasl Casting. 'This is savvy vet vs young upstart, on the most elite level in the game. Take one.'

Let's be honest. Kim is the least accomplished of the elite players. Also the youngest. And how much more perfect than she could we cast in the role of 'young upstart/elite'?

You can't cast Venus as 'savvy vet', cause you eventually have to cast a '#1 contender'. (Sports movies mostly being the same plot. Certainly if you get a sequel.)

Lindsay would be fine too, but Jenn comes with a pretty big fan base, important to TV. I'm not sure who's balls at ESPN she's got a string around, if Jenn's in a quasi-important match, they show it.

This could be a good match, but I don't see Jennifer going far enough outside her comfort zone to win.
What are you talking about when you say Jen never aims for the lines?!?
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 02:23 PM
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She started in 1994, and was 21 when she won a grandslam in 2000. She was not a young upstart when she won a slam mind you! Kim is not an upstart anymore!

Take care of your character. Reputation will sort itself.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukon145
What are you talking about when you say Jen never aims for the lines?!?
Watch Jenn at the beginning of every match. Even when she tries to hit winners, the ball usually bounces a couple feet from the sidelines, and a couple feet from the baseline. Often, she just retruns with pace down the middle. Only if this tactic fails will Jenn starts aiming AT the lines, not inside them. And she gets a lot of errors doing it, since it's not her normal game. Kim's a HORRIBLE opponent for Jenn, now that Kim seems to have her nerves in order.

Kim beats Jenn on cardio, and will cheerfully engage in 20 and 30 shot rallies, as long as she isn't down more than one break. Further, Kim is often jsuttrying to return with depth. Inevitably, in a matchup of these styles, the player with inferior conditioning will be forced to attempt difficult winners. By the third set yesterday, Jenn was forced into attempting difficult winners, most of which she missed.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 09:34 PM
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I thought Jennifer was very aggressive yesterday.

Moving forward, coming to net, volleying, drop-shotting and hitting some monster shots.

It was pretty obvious who was producing the pace. What I was surprised about was how Jen was returning and the fact that she was hitting BH DTL as an offensive tactic.

Jen's conditioning lost her the match, in addition to Kim starting the 3rd set superbly and Jen losing a bit of focus, which you can't do against an elite player in the 3rd set of a final.

Damn Jenny, SOOOO close!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddkayla
She started in 1994, and was 21 when she won a grandslam in 2000. She was not a young upstart when she won a slam mind you! Kim is not an upstart anymore!
She won a Major, not a Grand Slam.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 09:45 PM
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Venus wasnīt 21 when she won her first GS. She just became 20 and then she took the field by storm! 34 match winning streak, 2 GSīs and Olympic gold! Can Kim do this?! uuuuhhhmmm.....I would like to see Venus in her half at the Open, just to see Venus wipe the floor with her!
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 2003, 10:47 PM
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Jen reminds of martina hingis style of play agianst the williams from 2000 onwards- all she she does is hit the the ball hard down the middle and hope her opponent missses most of the time- she never dictates ralleys or goes for the outright winner instead perfering to run side-to-side being yo-yoed, hitting the ball down the middle....
She's not going to beat many top players playing like this unless their really off-
this is a a reason why she always end up loosing in 3-sets, top players can go through games where the loose their range and jen capitalizes on this by playing riske free tennis and wins the set-however as soon as players find their range she's toast-ala all her matches with serena are like this- as soon as serena stops missing shots- jen looses..
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