Sick of Graf and Navratilova fans fighting over who is the best of all time? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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Sick of Graf and Navratilova fans fighting over who is the best of all time?

OK then, who is number 3?

Chris Evert?
Billie Jean King?
Monica Seles?
Margaret Court?
Suzanne Lenglen?
Lil' Mo?
Evonne Goolagong?

Or maybe you would leave Graf or Navratilova, or both out of the Top 2.........
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 02:53 AM
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here comes the Monica-Steffi battle again. I will start Monica is the greatest because she was stabbed by a Steffi fan but she isn`t the greatest because she was to lazy to play doubles(he nav fans used that argument for Steffi while she still won wimbledon in 88 so in that case it also counts for Monica who never played doubles after aussie open 91 till she was stabbed in grand slams), My conclusion is that Kimmy is the greatest because somebody told me tonight that being greatest only depends on taste but then Steffi is my all time fav but she is left out here and since I never supported any player as hard as Kimmy after Steffi, she must be the greatest

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 03:07 AM
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It doesn't matter how you ask, ball change pls, the minute they get here, they'll get into the thread to start arguing over N.1 again

Personally, I would give Chris Evert the N.3 of all time... I would consider BJK, if I didn't personally dislike her so (I wouldn't even nominate her for the "worst glasses award" just for not having to have her on the podium ) ... I think Evonne and Seles are behind... and Court and Lenglen, I really think greatness comes with having great rivals... I would place them above Evonne, Seles and BJK (of course! ), but not over Evert.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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I agree with you Gallofa. I would put Evert no 3 for the following reasons:

* same era as Navratilova, but still 28 GS singles
* no.2 in most tournaments won as well as singles matches won (behind Martina)
* 3 Wimbeldon titles despite grass being her worst surface
* 125 match winning streak on clay
* only one loss before the QF of all grandslams entered, and only 4 times lost before semis overall- amazing!

I'm a little biased towards Evert though, and against Margaret! . I wouldn't even put Margaret Court in the top 5 even though she has the most grandslam singles titles!

Irma, let the Seles debate begin! For once, it will not be used in relation to Garf, but to elevate seles!

I would probably put Lenglan 4 and seles 5, and BJK 6........
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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I just read my post. Sorry about the GS typo. I meant 18 (though 28 would have been nice...say 10 more Wimbeldons )
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 05:01 AM
 
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BJK. I have no idea if she was the best player but she is one cool lady.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 05:54 AM
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I think Chris Evert is definitely the #3 greatest player. 18 GSs and that amazing clay record.

BJK is a close 4th, and Seles 5th. Both were a little unfortunate with injuries.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 06:24 AM
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I'd also go for Chris Evert at all-time No.3. The total number of weeks at No.1 is important in my book, and Chris Evert places third.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 06:38 AM
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You can only play who shows up.

Is Steffi's record inflated because a better player (at the time) was off the tour for three years.

Is Court's record inflated because the top players didn't all play OZ in those days?

Chris Evert relates a story of a GS final she skunked BJK pretty badly in. Later she found out Billie Jean had been running around the city all day meeting with tour sponsors and potential sponsors while Chrissie was resting up for the final. How many more GS tiltles would BJK have won if she had been focusing solely on tennis like her competition, instead of also being the driving force behind building the tour?

How many championships would Margo or Martina or Steffi or Chrissie have won with the rackets and training techniques available to Helen Wills Moody (19 GS singles titles)?

I can make a sound defense for

#1 Court
#2 Navratilova
#3 King
#4 Graf
#5 Evert
#6 Moody
#7 Seles

That isn't the order I happen to believe in, but it's defensible.

All time best will never be answered.

For you Americans - Babe Ruth vs Barry Bonds?

Ruth had a higher average, but pitching was a lot worse in those days. And no Black players. And no relief pitchers. OTOH, expansion has diluted the quality of pitching today.

In short, the discussion is fun, as long as you don't expect agreement at the end of day.

If all these players had been forced to work with the equipment, training and sexism Helen Wills Moody endured, they wouldn't have come close to her. (Now, how can you DIS-prove that statement?)
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 06:49 AM
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Wink

I pick Navratilova over Graf simply because of her doubles victories..and no question who is third...Evert...the others pale in their wake.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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It seems that there is a resounding rally by Evert for no.3 so far. DoubleFault will be pleased.

Does 8 out of 9 grandslam titles make Monica a contender for no 3?
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 07:08 AM
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 11:38 AM
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Volcana-the King final Evert was referring to wasn't a slam. It was Philadelphia in 1978.

To be considered for an all-time #1 you have to have something others don't. Using that logic, only a few are "contenders' for the top.

In order by date played.

Lenglen- dominant(lost only once after the age of 14), won lots of majors,including 6 Wimbledons.

Wills-again dominant(won about 180 matches straight and undefeated for nearly 7 years. If the Aussie isn't counted, she has the most major event wins.

Court-has the most slams(24)-though 12 of those are in the weakest, the Aussie. And a grand slam, in 1970.

Evert-Has lots of slams(18), record 13 years straight as a winner in majors(1974-86)-consistency her unique advantage.

Navratilova-Has lots of slams(18)-most dominant season among those after World War II(losing one match in 1983)-strongest case is she has the most titles(9) at the most important event, Wimbledon.

Graf-has the most slams outside Court(22). Grand slam in 1988.
Only one with 4 wins in each slam.

Outside those 6 no "expert" has ever chosen another candidate. Personally, I think Evert's case is the weakest of the 6, but if consistency was the only criteria, she would be #1.



This excludes those NEAR the top who for one reason or another have gaps or less titles. These women are often in an-time top ten, but you'll never see them listed at the top.

Connolly-won 9 straight slams entered,including a 1953 grand slam. Simply had too short a career to(ended in a horseriding accident) move up. Before Court came along in the 1960's, she was always #3 on all-time lists. Big question mark for what might have been.

King-has lots of slams(13?) but is clearly behind Court, Evert, Martina, etc. Only has 1 slam on clay, her weakest surface. Missed a chance at a grand slam in 1972 when she didn't play the Aussie.

Seles-has won lots of slams(9), may add to others, but without a Wimbledon title on her weakest surface, she can't move up. Of course her stabbing puts a big question mark on what might have been.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 11:45 AM
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I cant choose between Graf and Navratilova for #1, there are excellent cases for both, but definitely evert #3!
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 2002, 11:49 AM
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Anyway you cut it Martina N. is the all-time greatest. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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