Who is better?? (check post #13 and #41) - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Who is better?? (check post #13 and #41)

Despite the rankings, does anyone believe that Kim Clijsters is a better player than Venus or Serena?? I am having a discussion with someone over this topic, and I can't grasp why they believe Clijsters is a better player than either WS.

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:03 AM
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Better then Venus this year for sure....but not better then Serena....no way...


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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:04 AM
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She hasn't even beaten either of them this year =P


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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtael
Better then Venus this year for sure....but not better then Serena....no way...
I'm referring to overall better player. I know she has gained more points than Venus so far this year, even more than Serena in fact, but I'm talking despite ranking points.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:07 AM
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Serena and Venus are better than Kim.

Serena clearly. She won in the AO by stepping up her game in the third set. That was the normal Serena and Kim could not do anything about it. Another example in Scottsdale: Serena winning 6-2 6-4 or something like that.

Venus is better too, but she's beginning to lose her form. She showed in Antwerp that if her motivation is high, she is clearly better then Kim. If she would concentrate 100% on tennis, she would be number 2. But if she doesn't do that, it's her mistake that she is number 4 in the world and not 2 ...

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:20 AM
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Being objective Serena is clearly better than Clijsters.

Venus? Get real. It's 2003 baby, and as some Williams fans like to say, the sisters aren't the same. Venus has won-count em (oops count IT)
ONE event in about 6 events. Sh'es been knocked out early of one one slam-and in the other slam Kim came closer to beating Serena than Venus. And Kim has won more than one event.

There are your reasons Knizzle. Objective reasons. Venus can't claim to be superior so far in 2003 based either on slams, regular tour wins, or even a win-loss percentage. And past glory doesn't cut it.

That leaves you with Venus' 1-0 record vs. Kim so far this year.


I'm not saying Clijsters will end up being better at year's end-Wimbledon and the US Open are usually where Venus shines. She's gotta prove it it though. So far for 2003 Clijsters is clearly above Venus.

Both are in the same section of the draw here. If they meet in the semi it will tell us a lot about where they really stand
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:25 AM
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All the "So ans SO player is better than some other" is subjective and varies from one person to another depending on how much he/she likes that player! We may try to sound as objective as we could but we never are .....To you Kim is just isn't as "good" as the W/S because she has not won a slam or because she doesn't beat them often or because she doesn't have as good a H2H record against the other player. But have you ever noticed that at her age her record is as good if not better than that of either of the sisters at 20! ...and she is still improving and learning ! Venus had an atrocious H2H against Lindsay till 1999-2000 but all that changed only in the last three years. Same with Serena and Jennifer !Kim at her age is better than most other players and in the time to come she is only going to get better !The question is "better" in what respect ? Don't you think the Venus of today is "better" than the Venus of say 1999 . Yes she is... Why ?? because she improved ...Similarly the Serena today is a much better player than what she was in 2001 .

So why is Kim # 1 right now ? Because she has done better than what she did last year while the others have not ! The rankings compare a players performance not only against their opponents but also against that players performance in the previous 52 weeks !
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:26 AM
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based on majors kim is better than venus at the moment this year and this tournament will decide whether she is better than serena but that is discounting the quality of players each had to play in the majors (i don't know who they each played and i can't be bothered looking it up).

this year:

kim = SF oz open, Final RG
venus: RU oz open, 4th round RG
serena: Winner oz open, SF RG

all 3 are in the 2nd round of wimbledon. imo the only way kim can be said to be better than serena this year up to the end of wimbledon would be if kim was to win wimbledon and serena was to lose in the semi-finals or if kim was to get 2 extra wins than serena at wimbledon. if she gets one more win then they are equal. but that doesn't factor in the players each have played so i guess it is arguable who is better.

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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OK. Showdown between Clijsters and the WS. best of ten matches against each WS how many would Clijsters win??

I'd say about 2 out of the 10.

The WS also perform better than Clijsters vs. the top ten and top twenty.

If you looked at the winning percentages of tournaments played to tournaments won, I'm sure the WS would come out ahead of Clijsters also.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Diya, I saw your post on the prediction game LOL!!
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 10:04 AM
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oh, I'm having a "déjà vu", I think. Isn't this like the tenth time or something that we are discussing this??
There hasn't been a match between kim and the williams sisters since a long time. So, maybe you should let it rest and comment after the semis, if they get that far...
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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2003, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diya
All the "So ans SO player is better than some other" is subjective and varies from one person to another depending on how much he/she likes that player! We may try to sound as objective as we could but we never are .....To you Kim is just isn't as "good" as the W/S because she has not won a slam or because she doesn't beat them often or because she doesn't have as good a H2H record against the other player. But have you ever noticed that at her age her record is as good if not better than that of either of the sisters at 20! ...and she is still improving and learning ! Venus had an atrocious H2H against Lindsay till 1999-2000 but all that changed only in the last three years. Same with Serena and Jennifer !Kim at her age is better than most other players and in the time to come she is only going to get better !The question is "better" in what respect ? Don't you think the Venus of today is "better" than the Venus of say 1999 . Yes she is... Why ?? because she improved ...Similarly the Serena today is a much better player than what she was in 2001 .

So why is Kim # 1 right now ? Because she has done better than what she did last year while the others have not ! The rankings compare a players performance not only against their opponents but also against that players performance in the previous 52 weeks !
Diya, if you go by the year to year then if Clijsters doesn't win a slam here at Wimbledon, she will be behind Venus because Venus won a slam in her fourth full year. This is Clijsters fourth full year, but she also played a partial year in 1999 with 8 tournaments and one title so that year could be included since she won a title. Not saying Kim won't improve, but since you say she is already better than the WS relative to where they are in their respective careers Kim Clijsters should be the greatest player on earth.
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2003, 03:08 AM Thread Starter
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Basically, Venus and Serena can reach levels of play on the court that Clijsters just can't touch, and their mental toughness sets them apart from Clijsters also. This is why I believe both are far better players than Kim Clijsters. Maybe Clijsters will be on their level or surpass them someday, but today ain't that day.
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2003, 03:14 AM
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Since last years US Open, Venus has ONE Tier II title. That's it.

Kim has a Tour Championships, 2 Tier I's, 2 Tier II's, and 2 Tier III's.

Next question?

You have to answer for Santino, Carlo.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2003, 03:16 AM
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shes won 6 titles this year and been in what 9 finals??

She playing way to much tennis! But she keeping with it! soo keep it going kimmy!
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