Are Henin/Clijsters 2003 as good as Linzi/Hingis 98-00? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 2003, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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Are Henin/Clijsters 2003 as good as Linzi/Hingis 98-00?

OK, so from 1998 until 2000, there were the big four who were considered the best and most exciting (excluding Graf's comeback and swift retirement), and that was Martina, Lindsay, Venus and Serena.

Since then however, Venus and Serena have gotten a lot better and the other two who now make up the big exciting four are Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters.

They are ranked 2 and 3 although most consider them to be 3rd and 4th best in the world. However, I was wondering how all you guys think they compare to the Hingis and Davenport pair in their prime.

Are Henin and Clijsters as good? Is Kim as good and powerful a hitter of the ball as LInzi? Would Henin at her best be better than Hingis at her best?

I never did think that the belgians were as good as LInzi and Martina were, but now i do believe that they are playing at a higher level and i now believe we are witnessing the highest quality of tennis from the top 4 we maybe have ever seen.

Do you guys think the Belgians in 2003 are better than Linzi and Martina were in 1997-2000?
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post #2 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 2003, 11:20 PM
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I don't think Justine compares to Martina in any way. Martina during her prime was able to compete and many times win against hard hitters on any surface, even hard. Justine just simply can't do it. Justine is an excellent clay player, but something tells me that her thunder is going to be stolen very quickly by Venus, Serena and definitely Kim. Justine is no competition to any of them outside of clay.

See ya next year Justine !!!!

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post #3 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 2003, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-About-Venus
I don't think Justine compares to Martina in any way. Martina during her prime was able to compete and many times win against hard hitters on any surface, even hard. Justine just simply can't do it. Justine is an excellent clay player, but something tells me that her thunder is going to be stolen very quickly by Venus, Serena and definitely Kim. Justine is no competition to any of them outside of clay.

See ya next year Justine !!!!
I personally believe that tennis was at its Zenith when Lindsay and Martina routinely challenged the Williams Sisters! Their battles during 1998-2000 laid the foundation for what Kime and Justine are enjoying now!

This period now IS NOT comparable to 98-00 series. When Venus took on Lindsay;or Serena took on Hingis, no one really knew who would win! When Kim, or Justine, faces the WS, you kinda have that feeling that a WS will come out victorious.

Since Kim and Justine are not considered SERIOUS threats to the WS, most don't feel that we have the same energy that existed then!

I believe that once Lindsay gets her focus back, she's the only person that can succesfully challenge the sisters! She's the only player on the tour that's been in 7 finals in the last year! 7 finals! That's pretty darn good!


Cire
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post #4 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 2003, 11:34 PM
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cirelowe--While I agree to an extent, Henin-Hardenne beat Serena 3 of the last 4 times they've played. Yet we think the Williams will always come out the victor.

Obviously on a hardcourt/grass surface you'd expect a Williams. Now that's clay's over.

To me the biggest difference are the Williams themselves. They've cut down their errors (for the most part anyway), so they don't lose matches anymore. I don't mean to disrespect any Davenport or Hingis fans, but I don't think I've seen a match where Davenport or Hingis actually BEAT a sister. The closest thing that comes to my mind are the 2000 US Open QF (Davenport over Serena) and the 99 (?) BOW Final where Davenport beat Venus in three sets.

So are Henin and Clijsters as good? Who knows. It's hard to say because the Williams are that much better.
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post #5 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 2003, 11:49 PM
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Justine and Kim just don't do it for me! There's something about their game - outside of Clay - that leads me to believe that neither girl will succesfully challenge the Sisters on a regular basis!

Kim's lost to Serena at the AO was a shame! The sport, even 4 months after the fact, hasn't gotten over it! 5-1 in the 3rd, and you don't close out the match! Come on, Kim! You are better than that! And, TO NOT ADMIT YOU CHOKED! Please!

Hingis nor Lindsay would have blown a lead as such. They were, and still are, more solid players.

Justine's going around praying the mental game of Venus Williams! Why on earth would any player - especially one that you've lost to 7 times - let another player know that her mental game is tops!!? What kind of crap is that!????

Justine believes that Venus will beat her in every match; Kim has her doubts about Serena!


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post #6 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:03 AM
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Um Hingis BEAT Venus on many occasions. Look at their early matches, Hingis was serving and volleying. And Hingis sprinted past Serena at the Auusie Open quarterfinals by pumping up the aggression. Hingis earned her stripes in that match. So I disagree that the Williams sisters were never "beaten" by Hingis or Lindsay. LOL @ the thought.

And no, the Belgians aren't as good as Lindsay/Martina. They might be eventually but Justine doesn't take the ball as early as Martina and Kim still tends to make WAAAAAAy more errors than Lindsay. When and if they fix that, a comparison can be made.
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post #7 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:17 AM
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o0O0o , can't you repond to a topic without showing your contempt for the Williames?? Meanwhile Venus and martina played 19 times with Martina winning 10 to Venus's 9.. Most of Martina's wins were early on in Venus's career . That's not many times UGH

Now to respond to the topic the answer is a resounding no-- no explanation needed.


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post #8 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infiniti2001
o0O0o , can't you repond to a topic without showing your contempt for the Williames?? Meanwhile Venus and martina played 19 times with Martina winning 10 to Venus's 9.. Most of Martina's wins were early on in Venus's career . That's not many times UGH

Now to respond to the topic the answer is a resounding no-- no explanation needed.
And most of Venus' wins were when Hingis was at the end of her career! They had very few matches against eachother when both were in their prime. This could go on and on, but the point of my post was responding to Infiniti2001 who said that Hingis and Lindsay never actually beat a Williams sister, except for twice. By my count they've beaten them almost 30 times.

So I'm sure you'll forgive me to responding to a post in a non-offensive manner.
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post #9 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:24 AM
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If for talking sake we picked justine and kim the way there are playing now and put them in 98-00, i would stil see martina and lindsay beating them both. KIm can make loads of errors and i still think justine isnt all there mentally. I also think a fully fit Martina and Lindsay have a better chance of beating the williams sisters, maybe its just becuase there rivalry lasted longer, and my opinion might change in 2 years when kim and justine have been playing longer. I just think martina and Lindsay are better players than kim and justine when they are all playing there best tennis.

The next big thing: Voegele
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post #10 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:31 AM
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Kim and Justine are nowhere near the end of their careers. Who's to say they've already played their best tennis? Justine just won a GS and Kim the WTA Champs. It has not been that long and now that they have placed a gap between the sisters and are gaining on Serena, I don't know if it's the right time to speculate about their "best" tennis.

Wasn't it only a year ago when people thought Serena would never win a clay title at a tier I or higher, or clay period. Now she has 2 (to Justine's 4 ahahaha) over the same period of time. So who's to say Justine can't prove everyone else wrong by winning a hardcourt Grand Slam?
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post #11 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o0O0o
And most of Venus' wins were when Hingis was at the end of her career! They had very few matches against eachother when both were in their prime. This could go on and on, but the point of my post was responding to Infiniti2001 who said that Hingis and Lindsay never actually beat a Williams sister, except for twice. By my count they've beaten them almost 30 times.

So I'm sure you'll forgive me to responding to a post in a non-offensive manner.

You better read this post over Meanwhile check out the head to head between Venus and martina.. Martina was the #1 player and the favourite to win in almost all the matches they every played , so PLEASE don't mention anything about the end of her career here.

Venus Williams (USA) vs. Martina Hingis (SUI)
1997-03-17 Key Biscayne Hardcourt R32 Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-4 6-2
1997-07-28 San Diego Hardcourt R16 Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-2 6-1
1997-08-25 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-0 6-4
1998-01-12 Sydney Hardcourt R16 Venus Williams (USA) 3-6 6-4 7-5
1998-03-02 Indian Wells Hardcourt SF Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-0 7-6(7)
1998-03-16 Key Biscayne Hardcourt SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-2 5-7 6-2
1998-05-04 Rome Clay F Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-3 2-6 6-3
1998-05-25 Roland Garros Clay QF Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-3 6-4
1999-05-03 Rome Clay SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-4 1-6 6-4
1999-08-02 San Diego Hardcourt F Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-4 6-0
1999-08-30 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-1 4-6 6-3
1999-09-27 Munich Indoor Carpet SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-2 6-7(6) 9-7
1999-10-11 Zurich Indoor Hardcourt F Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 6-4
1999-11-15 Chase Championships Indoor Carpet SF Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-4 7-6(2)
2000-06-26 Wimbledon Grass QF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 4-6 6-4
2000-08-28 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Venus Williams (USA) 4-6 6-3 7-5
2001-01-15 Australian Open Hardcourt SF Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-1 6-1
2001-03-19 Miami Hardcourt SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 7-6(6)
2002-04-29 Hamburg Clay SF Venus Williams (USA) 7-5 6-3
Martina Hingis (SUI) leads 10:9


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post #12 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 12:51 AM
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LOL and you really should have seen Venus in some of those losses. US Open 99 & Chase Championships 99 = Venus playing the best tennis of her life up to that point against a fragile Hingis...and still losing.
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post #13 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 01:07 AM
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I said it before, I'll say it again...I never seen Hingis actually beat a Williams sister. They always beat themselves with the errors. No disrespect, just my belief.
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post #14 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o0O0o
And most of Venus' wins were when Hingis was at the end of her career! They had very few matches against eachother when both were in their prime. This could go on and on, but the point of my post was responding to Infiniti2001 who said that Hingis and Lindsay never actually beat a Williams sister, except for twice. By my count they've beaten them almost 30 times.

So I'm sure you'll forgive me to responding to a post in a non-offensive manner.
as a fellow williams fan i must say that i agree with you here,that neither player was a there prime when facing each other and sometimes you never really knew the outcome of the match which made for could matches(i.e US Open 2000),and it's appreciative that you did it in such a well written manner without having to resort into any kind of bashing,i applaud you!!!!
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post #15 of 71 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 2003, 01:14 AM
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(give me rep points please!!!)

Last edited by cheeky; Jun 12th, 2003 at 01:52 AM.
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