Choking... - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Choking...

Don't really want a serious debate on this, but I am wondering when a player loses a big, insurmountable lead, is it always considered to be choking?

I have noticed a trend around here lately is to dub a player a choker every time she loses after leading in the match, and rarely giving the other player the credit for being able to come from behind and win the match.

Just wonder what some of you think.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 10:32 AM
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I think it HAS to be a combination of both But in the case of Hantuchova....having a 6-1, 5-2 lead (I think) and loosing 0-6 in the 3rd set HAS to be considered choking...
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 10:45 AM
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in my opinion when you can't close a match then you don't deserve to win except when you get injured of course!

matches don't at at 4 or 5 games!

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:18 AM
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to me choking is if you have match point and are up say 5-1 or 5-2 in the deciding set.

plus it depends on how the player who is 'choking' is playing. if they keep doing unforced arrors and give the match away it is choking but if their opponent keeps hitting winners or forces errors and doesn't give them a chance to close it out then i personally don't consider it choking.

if you are just watching live scores and aren't seeing them play on tv or go and watch them then i don't think you can say whether they are choking or not.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:23 AM
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but hitting winners doesn't say much. when a player chokes she can start to hit less deep and give the opponent all room to hit winners.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:33 AM
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winners was just an example.

my point was that if the opponent of the player who is 'choking' doesn't give them a way to win then i don't consider it choking.

it is hard to tell the difference between choking and nerves and you really have to see the match to really know.

but that is my opinion. if you don't agree you don't agree. but i can see your point.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:33 AM
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obviously daniela choke yesterday

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 12:15 PM
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I would consider that there are 3 types of choking

A Choker - A Person who regularly chokes. EG - Justine
To Choke a Match - When a player is leading by at least a set and 5-2 w or w/o match points and then loses the set, and then the match. It can also occur if the player has a considerable lead in the final deciding set. - Eg - Daniella Vs Alicia
To Choke a Set - When say perhaps you are leading 5-0 or 5-1 in a set a lose it. It may not lose you the match, but forces you to play another set. If the person who choked loses the match they would have had to been down a set and then up 5-1 or wateva in the second, or up 5-? in the first. Eg - Elena D Vs Pratt
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 12:29 PM
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I guess novotna didn't choke in wimbledon 93 then afterall she never served for the match

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 12:37 PM
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I think choking is when a player realises that they're close to winning and gets nervous about it. It can happen when they're 5-2 up in the final set, when they've won the first set, or even before the match when they know they're the overwhelming favourtie.
You need to watch a match to really know if a player chokes but signs of it is when they stop playing the way they have been and start playing more defensively, usually without a change in play of the other player. Sometimes the other player plays better but when the choking player stops playing aggressively its still a choke.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 12:48 PM
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i found this in another thread posted by tennisIlove09...

Quote:
FULL ARTICLE HERE: http://espn.go.com/tennis/news/2003/0321/1527484.html

The slender Hantuchova, who is listed at 5-foot-11\ and 123 pounds, said she has lost weight recently because of her training regimen. That may have been a factor in the third set against Molik.


"I felt I had nothing left,'' Hantuchova said. "Anything I've eaten, it just disappeared because I was working so hard. So this is one of things we're working on now -- to get a bit stronger.''
perhaps she literally ran out of energy. that's not the same as choking.

"For now, Roddick seems to play with the intelligence of a fence post."
Greg Couch, Chicago Sun Times
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
having a 6-1, 5-2 lead (I think) and loosing 0-6 in the 3rd set HAS to be considered choking...
viewed from another angle the fact dani lost 11 sttraight games proves she did not choke cos inferring from that im quite sure Alicia finished the match just too good from 2-5 down! Winning 11 straight games is pretty much a double-bagel for the 2nd half of the match

Good luck to the Aussie and Balkan girls!
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 04:26 PM
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Mostly, but then at the AO I would not say that Kim chocked against Serena!

WTA TOUR
ELENA DEMENTIEVA
KIM CLIJSTERS
ALSO STARRING
THE GIRLS ON TOUR!

ASAGOE~BOVINA~JANKOVIC~MOLIK
MYSKINA~SCHNYDER~ZVONAREVA

THE YOUNG GUNS

BACSINSZKY~CHAKVATADZE~IVANOVIC
JACKSON~KIRILENKO~LINETSKAYA
MAKAROVA~MIRZA


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BEYGELZIMER~DOKIC~HARKLEROAD
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 04:30 PM
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yes she did two doubles faults in a row while serving for the match at 5:3

you can't choke more then that!

In the middle of the night
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To the river so deep
We all end in the ocean
We all start in the streams
We're all carried along
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 04:34 PM
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I thought she served for the match at 5:2 and again at 5:4, and when she had match points I dont remember her double faulting.

WTA TOUR
ELENA DEMENTIEVA
KIM CLIJSTERS
ALSO STARRING
THE GIRLS ON TOUR!

ASAGOE~BOVINA~JANKOVIC~MOLIK
MYSKINA~SCHNYDER~ZVONAREVA

THE YOUNG GUNS

BACSINSZKY~CHAKVATADZE~IVANOVIC
JACKSON~KIRILENKO~LINETSKAYA
MAKAROVA~MIRZA


THE COMEBACK KIDS

BEYGELZIMER~DOKIC~HARKLEROAD
SPREM~VAKULENKO

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