YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day - Page 2 - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 05:59 PM
Senior Member
 
stromatolite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 33,365
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
Even if prize money and points are at stake?

I can speculate that players who come in the competition with rank 7, 8 (or alternates) will be happy to play for 3rd place, not only for the money and points, but also to see how they measure up compared to others. Some athletes want to see their personal best
If the players are really motivated to play for third prize (which I doubt) then this could be considered, but if they're only doing it for money and points, forget it.

Finals day at the YEC is supposed to be the final act in the season (we can safely airbrush Sofia out of the picture for the moment). The last thing you want on a day like that is two disappointed players who missed out on a finals berth going through the motions for a bit of extra cash and some points.
stromatolite is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:04 PM
Senior Member
 
bobito's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,417
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

3rd place play-offs, at any event in any sport, have always seemed pointless to me. The few that I have started to watch, I've quickly switched off as the players/teams have always seemed disinterested. They are essentially dead rubbers.
bobito is offline  
post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Tenis Srbija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Belgrade/Zemun
Posts: 14,010
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

I always wandered why there isn't a 3rd place match at the YEC
Tenis Srbija is offline  
 
post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 40,100
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
If the players are really motivated to play for third prize (which I doubt) then this could be considered, but if they're only doing it for money and points, forget it.

Finals day at the YEC is supposed to be the final act in the season (we can safely airbrush Sofia out of the picture for the moment). The last thing you want on a day like that is two disappointed players who missed out on a finals berth going through the motions for a bit of extra cash and some points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobito View Post
3rd place play-offs, at any event in any sport, have always seemed pointless to me. The few that I have started to watch, I've quickly switched off as the players/teams have always seemed disinterested. They are essentially dead rubbers.

With the ranking points awarded, if player has the opportunity to move up one place in the ranking with a win in 3rd place match, that is not NOTHING
tennislover22 is offline  
post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:22 PM
Senior Member
 
stromatolite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 33,365
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
With the ranking points awarded, if player has the opportunity to move up one place in the ranking with a win in 3rd place match, that is not NOTHING
It's not nothing, but what is it? What kind of match is it likely to be if the players are not intrinsically motivated, but just playing for some extra money and points?

Similar thing from the crowd's perspective. Who wants to watch a match between (no offense) two losers?
stromatolite is offline  
post #21 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:23 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,924
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

They could do this. Since they're turning the YEC into a bigger tennis festival or whatever $tacey called it.

The only probably I could see is that both finals and 3rd place matches could be rematches.

For example in this years case, we could see a rematch of Petra/Serena and Li/JJ

Victoria Azarenka.
Serena Williams. Maria Sharapova.

Wozniacki. Stosur. Jankovic. Bouchard. Halep. Muguruza.
Venus. Stephens. Cornet. Hampton. Bencic.
Seles. Henin. Davenport. Hingis. Clijsters.
MMJSL is offline  
post #22 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,924
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
Similar thing from the crowd's perspective. Who wants to watch a match between (no offense) two losers?
The same crowd that would watch a dead rubber.

Also, the two losers could be very good since they both reached the semis anyways.

Victoria Azarenka.
Serena Williams. Maria Sharapova.

Wozniacki. Stosur. Jankovic. Bouchard. Halep. Muguruza.
Venus. Stephens. Cornet. Hampton. Bencic.
Seles. Henin. Davenport. Hingis. Clijsters.
MMJSL is offline  
post #23 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 40,100
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
It's not nothing, but what is it? What kind of match is it likely to be if the players are not intrinsically motivated, but just playing for some extra money and points?

Similar thing from the crowd's perspective. Who wants to watch a match between (no offense) two losers?
I am not accepting the lack of motivation argument in all cases.

IN fact, I am asserting if point are at stake to move up in the ranking the player who stand to advance will be motivated.
If as result of a win, player stands to move up to #2 or #3 even 1#, such player does not need any other motivation.

WE should not forget, there are players who enter tournaments with the hope of reaching at least a given round and pick ranking point to improve their overall ranking.
That same logic can be applied here too!!
tennislover22 is offline  
post #24 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Marlene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,287
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
With the ranking points awarded, if player has the opportunity to move up one place in the ranking with a win in 3rd place match, that is not NOTHING
SF win: +360 pts
F win: +450 pts

How many points would you give the player who places third? They barely care for +160 pts and $140k in the RRs.
Marlene is offline  
post #25 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 40,100
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlene View Post
SF win: +360 pts
F win: +450 pts

How many points would you give the player who places third? They barely care for +160 pts and $140k in the RRs.
It is not much the total points, it where those point get player in the ranking.

If a 3rd place player goes up one spot as a result of winning, believe me, she will care.

let me crystallize this at the top.

It is possible that WTA ranking #1 or #2 could be in play, if win in 3rd place match can decide that, the players involved will care a great deal.
tennislover22 is offline  
post #26 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 06:45 PM
Senior Member
 
stromatolite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 33,365
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

^^They have no choice but to play dead rubbers, once you decide to award points per match in the RR you can't just scrap matches that are no longer needed to determine the SF places. I'm sure that people who turn up for the day will watch a rubber like that, but with nothing at stake except money and points for the two players, it's kind of like watching a rerun of a sitcom. If it's a good episode it can be kinda fun, but you aren't going to be too pissed off if your Mum calls you halfway through.

They do have a choice not to play a 3rd place playoff, in fact I would argue that they would need a good reason to decide to hold such a match. The fact that the players can move up in the rankings is not enough: they had their shot to do just that in the SF and they blew it.
stromatolite is offline  
post #27 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 07:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Marlene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,287
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
It is not much the total points, it where those point get player in the ranking.

If a 3rd place player goes up one spot as a result of winning, believe me, she will care.

let me crystallize this at the top.

It is possible that WTA ranking #1 or #2 could be in play, if win in 3rd place match can decide that, the players involved will care a great deal.
Granted, if BOTH players have a go at the #1 or #2 ranking, then they would probably BOTH care, and we would have a match. But this is just such an exceptional scenario that we'd probably only have an interesting 3rd place match once every 100 years. Remember, we're talking about ~200 ranking points here.
Marlene is offline  
post #28 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 40,100
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlene View Post
Granted, if BOTH players have a go at the #1 or #2 ranking, then they would probably BOTH care, and we would have a match. But this is just such an exceptional scenario that we'd probably only have an interesting 3rd place match once every 100 years. Remember, we're talking about ~200 ranking points here.
Yes, I know, the total point may not be significant, it is what they accomplish that is the focus of my argument.
If player takes over #1 or #2 ranking int the WTA, it does not matter how many points they got to get there.
It is the milestone in their tennis career that is important, even if they lose it, they will be known as former #1 (or #2).


You could be right that it is rare, I don't know how many times YEC results has changed the top 3 spots.

Last edited by tennislover22; Oct 27th, 2013 at 02:03 PM.
tennislover22 is offline  
post #29 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 07:56 PM
Senior Member
 
bobito's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,417
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
Yes, I know, the total point may not be significant, it is what they accomplish is the focus of my argument.
If player takes over #1 or #2 ranking int the WTA, it does not matter how many point they got to get there.
It is the milestone in their tennis career that is important, even if they lose it, they will be known as former #1 (or #2).


You could right that it is rare, I don't know how many times YEC results has changed the top 3 spots.
I just checked back the last 25 years and in none of them could a 3rd place play off have moved #2 up to #1 or #3 up to #2.
bobito is offline  
post #30 of 76 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2013, 08:00 PM
Senior Member
 
eDonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,583
                     
Re: YEC: Why NOT Inlcude a 3rd Place Match On Final Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
It would be satisfying for the 3rd place player to end the competition with win and a sense of accomplishment
And a very sad 4th place player, who has lost almost to anyone in that tournament.

Pironkova.Petrova.Kerber.Schnyder. Stosur.Jankovic.Kuznetsova.Kostova.Sevastova.
Pavlyuchenkova.Niculescu.Krunic.Radwanska.Date-Krumm.Kvitova.Vinci.Bacsinszky.

Muguruza.Vesnina.Falconi.Paszek.Shvedova. Konta.Van Uytvanck.Voegele
eDonkey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome