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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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don't you find it funny that...........

Clijsters just won her very first tier I title while Jelena Dokic has already won 2 and won them 2 years ago. i dunno i just find that really odd because i though kim has always been ranked higher than Jelena, except for when she had a coaching change in the middle of last year and Jelena hit a hot streak patch. Kima has won one and been in 1 more final, while Jelena won 2 and has been in i think 1 or 2 other finals for a Tier I. so why doesn everyone write Jelena off. i know that her current form is CRAP, and i'm admitting it, but don't you think they shoudl count Jelena in for winning a Tier I title since she has already 2 or them, and got them at such a youn age of 18. just a though, what do you think?

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naldo
Clijsters just won her very first tier I title while Jelena Dokic has already won 2 and won them 2 years ago. i dunno i just find that really odd because i though kim has always been ranked higher than Jelena, except for when she had a coaching change in the middle of last year and Jelena hit a hot streak patch. Kima has won one and been in 1 more final, while Jelena won 2 and has been in i think 1 or 2 other finals for a Tier I. so why doesn everyone write Jelena off. i know that her current form is CRAP, and i'm admitting it, but don't you think they shoudl count Jelena in for winning a Tier I title since she has already 2 or them, and got them at such a youn age of 18. just a though, what do you think?
I think part of the reason people have been writing Jelena off is in the first part of your post... Jelena won her Tier 1's 2 yers ago, while Kim's are more recent, and Kim's performances have been more consistant. I'm not saying that I write Jelena off by any means, but Jelena did used to play a hell of alot of tourneys, and with this ranking system it can help with your ranking.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 03:51 AM
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i agree that people shouldn't write off jelena but you have to admit that the competition (mainly because now the williams sisters are so much better than they were back then) was easier when dokic won hers. it is no excuse for kim not to have won any at that time.

and i think you are right in saying kim has always been ranked higher than jelena.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 03:51 AM
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Plus, don't forget that Kim has been in the final of a GS... Jelena is yet to do that!

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 03:51 AM
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I think that the WTA Champs is worth at least a Tier One. Sure, it doesn't start with as many opponents, but every round is a tough round. So I don't think that I would consider Indian Wells Kim's biggest title. Anyhow, I see more Tier 1's and some GS in Kimmy's future!

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 03:57 AM
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You are right Naldo..but what you are saying is in the same line as saying Martina N. should be counted as a heavy favorite if she were to enter singles tournies now...because she won 18 slams after all....years ago.

That said, I never count Jelena out..it's just that she needs to convince the doubters she still has it in her.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 04:01 AM
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In the two tier Is that Jelena won, I think she only beat one top ten player (Mauresmo in Rome) and even then Amelie was exhausted.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 04:15 AM
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OK... this is from the WTATour highlights:Kim

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS
SINGLES Winner (12 WTA Tour): 2003 - Sydney (T2), Indian Wells(T1);
2002 - Season-Ending Championships, Hamburg(T2), Filderstadt(T2), Luxembourg(T3);
2001 - Stanford(T2), Leipzig(T2), Luxembourg (T3);
2000 - Hobart(T5), Leipzig(T2);
1999 - Luxembourg (T3)

Finalist (9): 2003 - Antwerp(T2), Scottsdale(T2);
2002 - Stanford(T2), Tokyo [Princess Cup](T2);
2001 - Roland Garros(GS), Indian Wells(T1), ’s-Hertogenbosch(T3);
2000 - Filderstadt(T2);
1999 - Bratislava(T5).

Jelena

SINGLES Winner (5): 2002 - Sarasota(T4), Birmingham(T3);
2001 - Italian Open(T1), Tokyo [Princess Cup](T3), Moscow(T1).

Finalist (6): 2002 - Paris Indoors(T2), Strasbourg(T3), San Diego(T1);
2001 - Bahia, Zurich(T1), Linz(T2).

Plus for GS's, Kim has 1xF, 2xSF, and 2xQF. Jelena has onle 1xSF, and 2xQF! Kim has won alot of Tier 2 or reached the finals in alot of Tier 2 tourneys. Jelena has won 2 Tier 1's, but her other tourneys are 3's or 4's!

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Last edited by inkyfan; Mar 19th, 2003 at 09:05 AM.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 05:24 AM
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*cough* The Princess Cup was Tier II, Sarah!


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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 09:04 AM
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Oh, Sorry Matt, I'll edit it now

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 09:10 AM
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I call the masters a tier 1 +

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 09:29 AM
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Not taking anything away from Jelena, she has earned her two titles, yet it's the opponents you're facing that define the credit that should be given for getting a title not the amount of money and ranking points involved. Maybe you shoud consider the Masters Kim's biggest victory,

I still seem to be the most amazed at what she did in Filderstadt:

Clijsters-Myskina 6-4 6-2
Clijsters-Majoli 6-1 6-2
Clijsters-Davenport 4-6 6-3 6-4
Clijsters-Mauresmo 3-6 6-3 7-5
Clijsters-Hantuchova 4-6 6-3 6-4

Feel free to disagree, but I still rate this victory verly highly. Many Tier I's are won beating what are considered to be easier opponents.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 10:33 AM
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Well people write her off because you are not a legitimate threat unless you do well "consistently". Kim has proven to be much much more consistent (7 more titles and growing) and her style is more risk averse, and suited to beat the top players.

Having said that i dont think Jelena should be written off. When she is on she does play with more stick than Kim for sure and is capabale of winning the big tier 1's. The thing is, after last years Us Open loss to Bovina we havent even really seen flashes of good play from her to warrant her top position.

Cmon Jelena and get it back together! Hopefully this week in Nasdaq with atleast a few wins strung together, and fight to hold on to the top ten position

Good luck to the Aussie and Balkan girls!
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 11:54 AM
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Kim winning the WTA Champs gives her unlimited WC's (GS winners get that too) for the entire time you stay on tour.
WTA Champs are just below the slams.

no Tier 1 does that and will never get that privalege.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 2003, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmus
In the two tier Is that Jelena won, I think she only beat one top ten player (Mauresmo in Rome) and even then Amelie was exhausted.
In all fairness, Kim only beat 1 top ten player to win her tier 1 also. Chanda is not officially top ten until this week.
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