Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof) - Page 3 - TennisForum.com
View Poll Results: Do you think doping is a problem at the top level of the WTA?
Yes 46 46.00%
No 54 54.00%
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post #31 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:25 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

It's hard to say, but I'm inclined to doubt it. Of course there are players who have been caught out, but the nature of the sport makes me doubt that it would help most top players enough to be worth the risk.

The most high-profile cases that have come to light have almost always involved recreational drugs, which are irrelevant to the discussion anyway, because they aren't generally speaking performance-enhancing. But even PEDs aren't going to turn a mug into a GOAT, so the benefit from taking them is probably pretty limited anyway. All the top players are easily fit enough to play 7 best-of-3 matches in 2 weeks if necessary, so what would be the point of risking everything for a minor additional boost?
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post #32 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:28 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Countless offenders have been caught, and have been, and are being, punished for their indiscretions.
What make any of you believe that an offender will never be caught?
This strong desire to hang athletes out to dry is strange to me, but maybe we should start there.

It sounds more like you folks want a massive number of players caught just to prove a point.
Or possibly a single particular top ranked player?

None of this makes any sense. Yet the question is continuously brought up.

If a top athlete (or any athlete, for that matter) isn't caught, then maybe that athlete isn't doping.

The dopers can pass tests now because the tests technology lags the current PEDs in use.
This has been the case in the past, and will likely continue to be.
However, the screening/testing technology will catch up to the PEDs used (which was the case in Olympics Track & Field), and then everyone here who relishes a scandal and craves for a particular embarrassed top ranked athlete, just may get their wish.
Except maybe the offending athlete will be your fave.

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post #33 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:30 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Tennis is all about technique. No drug can make you have the proper technique on ball toss and placement on a serve.

No drug can teach you to choose the right shot at the right time which is absolutely crucial in tennis.

Men's tennis has become a bit of an endurance sport because of the BO5 matches so drugs might help there but not in women's tennis. But even then, it is still about skill.

You can't compare to athletics or cycling which are physical endurance/power sports.
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post #34 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:36 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
Tennis is all about technique. No drug can make you have the proper technique on ball toss and placement on a serve.

No drug can teach you to choose the right shot at the right time which is absolutely crucial in tennis.

Men's tennis has become a bit of an endurance sport because of the BO5 matches so drugs might help there but not in women's tennis. But even then, it is still about skill.

You can't compare to athletics or cycling which are physical endurance/power sports.
And is also a highly 'mental' game.
And as far as I'm aware, there is no current PEDs that will enhance tactics, or mental toughness.
In fact, I believe that every PED available and in use today degrades the body over time, but also expresses external irregularities on the users.

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post #35 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:38 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

I remember many incidences of cramping in the late 90s. I rarely see any cramping these days. The lack of cramping these days makes be believe there is some form of doping involved in tennis.

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post #36 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:40 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
Tennis is all about technique. No drug can make you have the proper technique on ball toss and placement on a serve.

No drug can teach you to choose the right shot at the right time which is absolutely crucial in tennis.

Men's tennis has become a bit of an endurance sport because of the BO5 matches so drugs might help there but not in women's tennis. But even then, it is still about skill.

You can't compare to athletics or cycling which are physical endurance/power sports.
Well men's tennis has become a marathon rather than tennis. I am all for counter-punching but it is just way more than counter-punching. Endurance and Stamina are a lot more important than skills.
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post #37 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 05:49 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
Tennis is all about technique. No drug can make you have the proper technique on ball toss and placement on a serve.

No drug can teach you to choose the right shot at the right time which is absolutely crucial in tennis.
Tennis about technique, but footwork (and not swingpath, stroke mechanics) is the most critical element of technique. When you are tired, your footwork gets messed up, and you're not in the right position to hit the ball and you end up either pushing or making a lot of mistakes when you go for your shot. Your confidence in your game drops because you are no longer sure which shots you can execute consistently.

Look at what happened to Cornet against Azarenka. She played out of her mind in the first set; she was basically in the zone and would have continued that way except she was expending so much energy that by the second set she was tiring and could no longer cope with Vika's usual point-to-point consistency. Similarly Wawrinka against Djokovic.

What EPO/blood-doping does is to take this out of the equation.

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post #38 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 06:14 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moby View Post
Tennis about technique, but footwork (and not swingpath, stroke mechanics) is the most critical element of technique. When you are tired, your footwork gets messed up, and you're not in the right position to hit the ball and you end up either pushing or making a lot of mistakes when you go for your shot. Your confidence in your game drops because you are no longer sure which shots you can execute consistently.

Look at what happened to Cornet against Azarenka. She played out of her mind in the first set; she was basically in the zone and would have continued that way except she was expending so much energy that by the second set she was tiring and could no longer cope with Vika's usual point-to-point consistency. Similarly Wawrinka against Djokovic.

What EPO/blood-doping does is to take this out of the equation.
Well if improved footwork over time is a key index for doping, then I'm not worried about my fave.


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post #39 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 07:09 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
In light of the Troiki scandal and Quinzi's comments on the ATP, just wondering what people's thoughts on this are. Strychova was obviously banned earlier this year, and a few players have been banned here and there for missing tests (e.g. Wickmayer). But overall there are very few people caught in tennis for doping offences, and the ones who are caught are never stars.

There have always been whispers, what with certain players taking long periods off with mysterious injuries, and players missing doping tests on a regular basis (sometimes with very poor excuses). There is always talk that unusually long breaks for injury, or retirements and comebacks, may be associated with silent bans. Several prominent tennis players have at some point had associations with doctors implicated in doping in other sports.

I was just wondering what people think? Is the WTA as WTA/ITF want us to believe? Or is everyone juiced and nobody wants to know?

Again, please don't accuse specific players of doping without proof or the mods will just delete the thread.
Wickmayer was never banned. She defended her case with success against the one year ban.
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post #40 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 07:52 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by DomenicDemaria View Post
I remember many incidences of cramping in the late 90s. I rarely see any cramping these days. The lack of cramping these days makes be believe there is some form of doping involved in tennis.
When you play moonball rallies for 3 hours, it normal to have cramps. Nowadays, thankfully those days are long gone. Game is based on power than endurance now. Also the improvements in medicine and training knowledge didn't hurt.
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post #41 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

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Wickmayer was never banned. She defended her case with success against the one year ban.
She didn't defend her case. She got the ban lifted.

She was still regarded as guilty, they just changed the penalty on appeal.
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post #42 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 08:21 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

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She didn't defend her case. She got the ban lifted.

She was still regarded as guilty, they just changed the penalty on appeal.
She defended it at the "Raad van State" where they concluded that the whereabout system is not legal. So there are no legal grounds to base the penalty on.
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post #43 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by RVD View Post
Countless offenders have been caught, and have been, and are being, punished for their indiscretions.
What make any of you believe that an offender will never be caught?
This strong desire to hang athletes out to dry is strange to me, but maybe we should start there.

It sounds more like you folks want a massive number of players caught just to prove a point.
Or possibly a single particular top ranked player?

None of this makes any sense. Yet the question is continuously brought up.

If a top athlete (or any athlete, for that matter) isn't caught, then maybe that athlete isn't doping.

The dopers can pass tests now because the tests technology lags the current PEDs in use.
This has been the case in the past, and will likely continue to be.
However, the screening/testing technology will catch up to the PEDs used (which was the case in Olympics Track & Field), and then everyone here who relishes a scandal and craves for a particular embarrassed top ranked athlete, just may get their wish.
Except maybe the offending athlete will be your fave.
I dont think this is a topic aimed at accusing players, I think its just a discussion on doping and if it would be beneficial and to discuss the known cases. At least that is what I hope!
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post #44 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by benbest View Post
She defended it at the "Raad van State" where they concluded that the whereabout system is not legal. So there are no legal grounds to base the penalty on.
Again, that doesn't mean she wasn't guilty of breaking the rules.
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post #45 of 271 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 2013, 09:37 AM
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Re: Doping in the WTA (no accusations without proof)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DomenicDemaria View Post
I remember many incidences of cramping in the late 90s. I rarely see any cramping these days. The lack of cramping these days makes be believe there is some form of doping involved in tennis.
There was a rule change in the 1990s to allow players to call for the trainer to treat cramp, which many of them do. Prior to that it was regarded as fatigue and players had to play on without treatment. That is probably why you saw players cramping badly on court more frequently.
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