Is winning overrated? (ex.Hingis/Serena) - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Is winning overrated? (ex.Hingis/Serena)

Most people are all of a sudden putting Serena over Hingis because Hingis hasn't won all slams, despite Hingis having twice more titles, about 5 times more weeks at no.1, more then twice of grandslam finals, etc.

However, my question is the following:

Let's take Serena's record at the FO. She has one title but then everything else sucks!

1 title, 1 QF, 1 4R, 1 3R.

However let's take Hingis' record at the FO:

2 finals, 3 Semis, 2 3R.

Is 1 title and basically nothing else bigger then 2 finals + 3 semis?? In my opinion, not at all.

Also many people tend to forget that Hingis reached 6 consecutive grandslam finals at the AO including winning a hat trick, yet Serena has never come close to this and hasn't even defended a grandslam title.

Anyways I just think that winning 1 title and doing nothing else, doesn't mean that it's "greater" then making several finals and semis thus proving consistancy and longevity. Hingis' record at the FO is better then Serena's record at the AO and FO. And add this to the fact that Hingis has many more slam finals overall, many more titles, many more weeks at no.1, Hingis comes out on top easily.

"Winning a title" is very overated, in fact if you compare the Serena final at the AO and the Hingis final at the FO, the only difference is one point or two. That shouldn't make THAT much of a difference. When you look at it Hingis' record at the FO is bigger then Serena's record at the FO or AO.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:27 PM
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No sweety...winning is not overated...sad to say and I know in advance it will start an arguement (not my intention) but calibre on competition is why some elavate Serena Venus and Lindsay over Hingis. You may not agree...but it´s okay to have opposing points of view.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Is it Martina's fault that Venus didn't know how to play at the 1997 US Open? In fact Venus is older then Hingis, there was no excuse that she still sucked and Hingis didn't. Didn't Hingis also beat Davenport in that tournament, is it her fault that despite Davenport being much older she hadn't "evolve" yet at that point? She did beat Venus, Serena & Davenport despite being younger, it's not her fault if they didn't know how to play yet. It's not as if she was 20 and they were 15. It was Hingis who was younger and there was no excuse for them.

Also Hingis continued beating Serena, Venus and Davenport all the way into 2001 including Serena & Venus back to back at the AO. What was their excuse then? They both had won slams.
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:37 PM
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serena has all the grand slams and has won them consecutively...i wouldnt put to much value about weeks at number one, the ranking system is flawed...and serena has played less tournaments than hingis, so of course hingis will have more...quality over quantity...

Serena has won the french, hingis hasnt...



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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:38 PM
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Whose assessing blame...other than you Selesrules. Its just a matter of fact. Hinigis at her best vs Lindsay Venus and Serena at their best (all by the way are within a few years of one another) does not favor Hingis.

By the way...saying that someone sucked...is an attempt to change this from a discussion to an attack on players ability...I choose not to do that at the moment...though I´m sure some one will come in and save you from show casing your inability to argue your own point without changing the topic.
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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oh please! You are the ones who keep saying that Venus, Serena, Davenport and Capriati "sucked" during Hingis' dominance, I'm just repeating what all of you said. I'm not changing the subject, YOU ARE.
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:43 PM
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Anyone who'd argue that reaching more finals is a greater accomplishment than winning the whole shebang has lost just about all of his credibility.

None of the metrics mentioned in the opening thread (weeks at #1, reaching the semis, finals, QFs, etc) can compare to winning. If they were so important, we'd have too many "great players" to mention.

It would be very hard to overrate winning.

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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:44 PM
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I am sure martina would love to have serena's record at the french!

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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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So in other words, Venus sucked in the last year since she "only" reached finals and didn't win?
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:48 PM
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No, Venus didn't suck, and reaching finals isn't a bad thing. But Venus certainly didn't have a better year than Serena who (hmm, let me think of the word...) WON.

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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Yes but is Majoli's french open title more impressive then Venus' 4 consecutive grandslam finals just because she "won"? I DON'T THINK SO.
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:55 PM
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Distraction is not a point of view.

For all the would be bashers of Williams fans...this is a prime example on someone starting a thread to start contraversy as opposed to argue a point.

By the way rules...since I refuse to add Seles to your tag, to say that one is not as experienced as another is not equal to saying the less experienced sucked...as to Venus, for reasons be they mental or physical...was not as good as Serena...yet better than the rest...among the group that is the best ever, so if you would like to define that as sucking...be my guest.
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:58 PM
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Selesrules. Think of it this way. Venus may not "known" how to play in 97, but Hingis isn'T playing anymore. VEnus will play for probably f more yar, and should end up with more of everthing. Rena is a better player than Hingis. She proven that as of late. Rena is at top for now, but when Hingis was in top for she would lose to Rena. I mean she just would. Rena movs better, smacks 100mph returns, serves a hell of a lot better, hit much harder, uses angles as well, doesn't choke in the final (aka 97 RG final just MO). Plus saying she made 6 AO finals in a row doesn't say much. She should have won in 02 but she didn't. Hingis is what 5-6 in finals rena is 5-1. Yes Hignis has more title, but hingis played twice as many tournies in a year as Rena does, and look what happened she burnt out, Rena isn't even near finishing.

ANd since 99 when VEnus fianlly developed into a complete player, she has a much better record. No doubt Hingis was a better player from 97-99, but even during 99 Venus beat her more than she lost, so Venus got behing in the H2H very quickly because Hingis was better when the played, and it was Venus's first full year on tour, it was Hingis'S 3. By the time Venus got to her third year sehe was beating Hingis more than she lost to her, and since the 99 USO SF she has lost 1 match to her!
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 05:03 PM
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Oh and by the way...some would point to Hingis´ inability to beat Iva at a time when she was dominating a weak (in my opinion) wta says more about her than it ever could about Iva...who is a good player but one who beat the better opponent, on what was said to be the bests best surface.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2003, 05:03 PM
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If Majoli had won a single FO title, and Venus had only reached 4 GS finals, I'd feel that Majoli had the better career and year than Venus. Runner ups never get the glory. Haven't you heard?

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