Is this the weakest #3-#10 in WTA history? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Is this the weakest #3-#10 in WTA history?

Let's face it, either Venus and Serena are that much better, or everyone else is that much worse. It's never happened that the same two players contested four straight GS finals. Which either implies the two players are good, or everyone else is bad. Martina and Chris, Monica and Steffi, Margo and BJK. None of those pairs met four times in a row at a GS.

Any objective person knows it isn't all about power. Lindsay Davenport, Monica Seles, Mary Pierce could all hit in that power range. Of course, you have to have the skill to CONTROL a ball you're trying to hit that hard, that low, on the run. That, of course, is a deficiency in skill, not power.

But an honest person has to admit that the evidence points to other conclusions than just the WIlliams sisters are currently playing at the highest level of any tennis pair in history. Maybe the rest of the top ten just isn't that good. It is totally possible that Venus and Serena are just average tenis players who hit hard and run fast, but the rest of the top ten is so unskilled they can't beat them in a major. I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S TRUE.

But as a Venus fan, I know I sometimes attribute all of Venus' success to her ability. But, and this may be the only objective statement about Venus I ever make, maybe it ISN'T that VEnus (and Serena of course) are so good.

Maybe everyone else sucks.

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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 10:55 PM
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No it's the not the weakest because Monica, Steffi, Navratilova etc. have also reached final after final after final. It's just that now they are 2 sisters doing it (which is very special), but all the greatest champions have reached several finals in a row while the rest of the top 10 couldn't stop them.
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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 10:56 PM
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No, I think it's just a testament to how good Serena and Venus have become. The problem with the current top 10 is that most of the girls play similar yet inferior tennis to the Williams' sisters i.e backcourt powerhitting. That's why when Seles and Graf were leading the pack it was more interesting because although these two were clearly ahead they had great contests with the other contenders such as the ageing Navratilova, Sabatini, Sanchez and Novotna. 6 players bringing six different games to the table. In this era if you have the top ten players slugging it out from the baseline there are only going to be two winners. They are all excellent sluggers but the pack need to find something else to launch a challenge with.
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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 10:57 PM
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um, kim had serena on the ropes
justine, lindsey, and daniela can also challenge them

ugh, why do they all suck????????
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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:10 PM
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i think within a couple of years the wta will have the best top 50 in history. let me just racak my brain and name some of the players that should be there then or already are there:

current:
serena
venus
jen
kim
justine
mauresmo
dokic
hantuchova
seles
davenport
myskina
rubin
schnyder
dementieva
daniilidou
stevenson
bovina
fernandez
shaughnessy
srebotnik
mikaelian
schett
bedanova
kournikova
zvonareva
kuznetsova

soon to be:
pierce
casanova
tulyaganova
widjaja
safina
benesova
razzano
irvin
marrero
bartoli
golovin
sharapova
krajicek
kirilenko
linteskaya
bastrikova
bratchikova
douchevina
kutuzova
petrova
krasnoroutskaya
harkleroad
koukalova
vakulenko
schwartz
foretz
mandula
molik
stosur
dlhopolcova
perebiynis
baltacha
bielik
strycova
domachowska
elke
hsieh
avants
robinson
flipkens
kurhajcova


hopefuls:
m-j martinez
bradshaw
lucic

Go the aussies! stosur!!!
and good luck russians: dementieva, safina, kirilenko, sharapova, kuznetsova, bovina, zvonareva, dushevina.

also good luck to: azarenka, lucic, sprem, vakulenko, vaidisova, safarova, ivanovic, groenefeld, mirza, krajicek, kvitkova, larcher de brito, lisicki.
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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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selesrules - That's why I asked about #3 - #10, not #2 to #10. Navratilova WON six finals in a row. I'm not discussing single players. I'm asking about the top two, any pair youwant, against the other 8 top ten players. Further, to be specific, I'm talking about the CURRENT abilities of the players.

croat123 - In some ways that's the point. It's like no matter how bad these two play in a GS, everyone else plays worse. Certainly there's no Hana Mandlikova hovering out there right now.

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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:15 PM
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It's not that they are that much better skill wise, it's just the others haven't come up with a plan to combat the power game yet. But it's coming. They are beatable, see Justine and Kim even, they've beaten them within the past 12 months. The only problem with the same 2 in grand slam finals 4 times in a row is it makes for a very boring and predictable sport. But lately, that's all we have to expect until we get some new blood... or the others learn to combat the power game with something more entertaining to watch.
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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:16 PM
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To answer your question Volcana, I think possibly YES.

If you look at all of them, they are all mostly BASELINERS (some are better volleyers than others but all are reluctant to volley consistently). I think with them, if you've seen 1, you've seen them all, with the exception of Henin/Mauresmo but they play similar games anyway. So yeah possibly yes, there's not much variety.
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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:16 PM
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i think the reason why other players lose to them even if they play badly is because they can't believe that they have such a good chance to beat them in a grand slam and they choke.

Go the aussies! stosur!!!
and good luck russians: dementieva, safina, kirilenko, sharapova, kuznetsova, bovina, zvonareva, dushevina.

also good luck to: azarenka, lucic, sprem, vakulenko, vaidisova, safarova, ivanovic, groenefeld, mirza, krajicek, kvitkova, larcher de brito, lisicki.
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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:19 PM
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I think its a combonation of both

The Williams' are good, but the rest of the tour arent as fast, arent as athletic and thus they lose

Yes if you hit it right to them Monica, Lindsay, Pierce and a select others can match them pretty much stroke for stroke, but its more than just power.

But no I dont think its the weakest, because From Late 1990 to early 1994 nobody not named Graf or Seles won much of anything
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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:20 PM
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Monica will need to stay healthy to challenge them.. we still don't know how well monica is playing at the moment... she has a chance...
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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:34 PM
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As with any era of total domination there are always going to be aspersions over the quality of opposition. And in years to come people will surely ask the question of the sisters opposition. Just as we downgrade the opposition of Martina Nav and Chris Evert, the adversaries of Seles and Graf and Hingis, today's players will too be dragged over the coals for not taking the challenge up to the sisters - and the achievements of the sisters will be tainted in the process.

People will point to the fact that the only 3 active champions other than the Williams' were MIA or below par. That Hingis was burnt out. That Davenport was injured and unable to recapture her form. That Seles was 5 years past her use by date. They will say that Jenn, another great player of their era, was struggling with being the best (once dysfunctional, always dysfunctional, right? ) and was effected by her eyes. They will say that dual grandslam winner Pierce was MIA.

As for the up and comers well the Williams can't win. If the likes of Henin, Clijsters and Hantuchova don't kick on and become Grand Slam champions detractors will point to the absence of a GS title in their resumes and say - "see no competition whatsoever, the best young players were not even GS material". If the aforementioned trio do become Grand Slam champions and end the William's domination of majors we will hear "The Williams' got lucky in 2002-2003, not only were Hingis, Davenport, Seles and Capriati past it but Henin, Hantuchova and Clijsters weren't fully developed yet, they weren't ready. See, as soon as they matured, the Williams domination ended "

Don't think it won't happen. Slot different names in and we have all been witness to eerily similar tripe about Hingis, 1997-1999.

Of course, we all know different and I don't buy any of it. Just as I don't buy the rhetoric about the lack of competition presented to former champions. Serena and Venus are both one in a million players. Any player who wins 4 majors is one in a million. All that matters is at this present time, they are head and shoulders above the rest. We all know the callbire of tennis they play. We all know the amazing tennis we have seen from them. I personally remember how brilliant Hingis was in her dominant years and I am certainly not going to taint her GS titles with hypothetical rhetoric - I have always spruiked this point of view. I am certainly not going to apply a double standard to the Williams' just because they are not my faves. The respective strength of each champions era is far to subjective standard to apply as a measure of greatness. Much easier to look at cold hard facts.
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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:40 PM
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I don't think it's the weakest at all... If anything I think the men's tour is much weaker. For the men in any given tournament, anyone in the top 200 might be in the final! The women's tour is very strong and consistent..that's why ratings are growing, because people are watching their favorites and can count on them making it to the final rounds.
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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2003, 11:57 PM
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Come on now...don't forget about Capriati just yet. As long as she remains in the top ten...I don't think you should call it "weak." I think that the Williams sisters are incredible atheletes that are raising the bar both physically and mentally for women's tennis as we speak.

But lets not forget that its Jen that has been able to win three grandslams in the past two years ( the only player to do that in the middle of the williams dominance.) She hasn't beaten a Williams in a while..however even when Serena is in-form, Capriati is able to take her to three tough sets...and she knows she can beat serena. As far as venus goes...she has almost beaten her and has challenged her in most of their matches (and they havn't played against each other in forever...I'm still waiting for that match-up again)

She has had a rocky last couple of months in particular...but her bad losses indoors were on her worst surface and her lack of preparation and eye problems were unlucky breaks contributing to her 1st round loss at the AO..however... she has been one of the only players to reach at least the quarterfinals of every slam in 2001 and 2002.

Do I think that Jen will dominate the sisters?...NO...they are younger, fresher, and awesome atheletes

but

I don't think they will always dominate her either...she will have her wins and her losses against them.

The Point to all of this.....

Jen's awesome forehand, speed, and fighting spirit has made her one of the greatest female players of the game's history and I wouldn't count her out to win a couple of more slams in the next couple of years....meaning that it won't always be williams vs. williams

and now that I'm done rambling on about my favorite player...the real point...

having some of the great players of tennis past and present like monica and jen and davenport mixed with young talents like kim and justine who are still developing into their top player forms means that its in no way a weak #3-10, just that venus and serena are competing that much better than them now...if anything i think the sisters are making the rest of the top ten stronger than ever so that they still hang in there and compete

and the williams sisters have a major mental edge over most of the other top players now....once someone can break that...we may see some mixup of players in the finals

okay I'm finally done now




[
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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2003, 12:02 AM
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#3-#10 is probably the weakest it has been since 1998, but stronger than it has been for most of the Open Era.

You have to answer for Santino, Carlo.
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