What player on the tour is the biggest fighter? - Page 11 - TennisForum.com
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post #151 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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Who is the biggest fighter? That would be Serena Williams. To me, she would be the Jacky Robinson of the tennis world for what she has been through and how she has had to fight on and off the courts. It would serve some people on TF to watch the new movie coming out about Jacky Robinson and then they would have a better understanding of Serena.
To the extent that racism was/is a factor in both careers, yes, but that's as far as it goes. The degree of the racism experienced is orders of magnitude apart. And aside from that, Jackie and Serena are VERY different - both personally and professionally.

It's a well known fact that Jackie was asked by Branch Rickey to keep his mouth shut for three years, take the shit that would come his way, citing it was for the greater good. If Jackie was "well behaved" then it would open the door for other black players. Jackie, by and large, cooperated and held his tongue. As a side note: this was contrary to Jackie's character as a "take no shit" hot head, and many feel that this is what led him to an early grave. Of course, after three years, Jackie let the cap off and was cursin' white players out, spikin' 'em if need be and basically fought back

Serena, on the other hand, came into the game not holding anything back. Talkin' big and backin' it up. There was nothing, demuring, modest or reserved about her. THAT'S why much of the establishment had a problem with her. They were looking for Jackie Robinson and got Serena J. Williams.

Personally, Jackie Robinson was a very vocal conservative. Yes I know. More blacks were Republicans back then, etc, etc, which is why I didn't say he was "Republican." He was CONSERVATIVE. He was very critical of Paul Robeson helping to organize unions and testified before HUAC regarding the issue.

In addition, Jackie, while a good ball player, outside of gargantuan historical contribution to the game, couldn't be considered an ATG on the level of Serena Williams. There were plenty of black players at that time who had more ability than Jackie. Serena, we all know, is peerless.

Also, the level of crap that has come Serena's way doesn't even remotely compare and is almost rendered meaningless when looking at the sea of shit that Jackie had to wade through for the first several years of his career.

There was a time when I thought the best comparison to Serena was Ali, but even that isn't accurate any more. I've now come to believe that there is no parallel to Serena in the sports world. She occupies a slot uniquely hers. She has carved out a kind of "new space" in athletic typology.

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post #152 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 08:46 AM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

As far as not only fighting during matches but overcoming or dealing with injury periods or personal issues, I'd say the Williams sisters, Masha, Lisicki, Petkovic.
Btw has anyone mentioned Date Krumm...
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post #153 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 02:37 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

Serena
It's a well known fact that Jackie was asked by Branch Rickey to keep his mouth shut for three years, take the shit that would come his way, citing it was for the greater good. If Jackie was "well behaved" then it would open the door for other black players. Jackie, by


Serena didnt have to do that thankful,her father talk for them with they where kids.Different for a kid and a grow man!
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post #154 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 03:41 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

I would agree that Serena and Maria are incredibly mentally tough and hard to beat. They just have that aura, they dominate the opponent with their personality and always have the possibility of pulling out great shots when they need them to stave off defeat/win a match. In this they are like all great champions. Serena, like Martina Navratilova at her greatest, is a very intimidating court presence that literally scares opponents into defeat sometimes.

Looking back over the last 30 years, two other retired players also come to mind when discussing mental toughness and I am not quite sure who corresponds to them now in terms of their fighting abilities.
Chris Evert was the most calm player ever in a crisis - she was totally unflappable, nerves of steel, every opponent had to beat her, she never lost to anyone. Who is her best equivalent in the modern game?
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario was the most combative and competitive player on a point by point basis - she literally refused to cede any ball, ran down everything and in the process drove opponents nuts. Is there anyone around now who would be prepared to cover so much court just to win one point time after time?
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post #155 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 04:08 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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Azarenka? You mean the one with like 2935734058034 retirements/withdrawals in the past 3 years? I don't think so.

Venus and Serena are the tour's ultimate fighters. Look at how many surgeries and heath issues they've gone through; the fact that they still have the will to play is amazing.
Personally I'd attribute coming back from serious injuries more to desire and passion for the game than fight. When you talk about fighting on court (which was the point of this thread), there are 3 players sticking out.

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Azarenka on the other hand, I will always maintain, is not mentally strong. I've said it a million times, it's easy to look like a mental giant when you are WINNING. How she handles someone outplaying her is nearly always atrocious.
She was extremely atrocious in handling the first set loss against Serena USO '12, Li AO'13, Sharapova USO '12, Cibulkova Miami '12, Kerber YEC '12, Li Madrid '12, Zvonareva AO '10, etc off the top of my head.
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post #156 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 04:14 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

Serena, Vika, Sara.
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post #157 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 04:50 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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To the extent that racism was/is a factor in both careers, yes, but that's as far as it goes. The degree of the racism experienced is orders of magnitude apart. And aside from that, Jackie and Serena are VERY different - both personally and professionally.

It's a well known fact that Jackie was asked by Branch Rickey to keep his mouth shut for three years, take the shit that would come his way, citing it was for the greater good. If Jackie was "well behaved" then it would open the door for other black players. Jackie, by and large, cooperated and held his tongue. As a side note: this was contrary to Jackie's character as a "take no shit" hot head, and many feel that this is what led him to an early grave. Of course, after three years, Jackie let the cap off and was cursin' white players out, spikin' 'em if need be and basically fought back

Serena, on the other hand, came into the game not holding anything back. Talkin' big and backin' it up. There was nothing, demuring, modest or reserved about her. THAT'S why much of the establishment had a problem with her. They were looking for Jackie Robinson and got Serena J. Williams.

Personally, Jackie Robinson was a very vocal conservative. Yes I know. More blacks were Republicans back then, etc, etc, which is why I didn't say he was "Republican." He was CONSERVATIVE. He was very critical of Paul Robeson helping to organize unions and testified before HUAC regarding the issue.

In addition, Jackie, while a good ball player, outside of gargantuan historical contribution to the game, couldn't be considered an ATG on the level of Serena Williams. There were plenty of black players at that time who had more ability than Jackie. Serena, we all know, is peerless.

Also, the level of crap that has come Serena's way doesn't even remotely compare and is almost rendered meaningless when looking at the sea of shit that Jackie had to wade through for the first several years of his career.

There was a time when I thought the best comparison to Serena was Ali, but even that isn't accurate any more. I've now come to believe that there is no parallel to Serena in the sports world. She occupies a slot uniquely hers. She has carved out a kind of "new space" in athletic typology.
Excellent post once again.

The key word in the op's initial question is fighter, singular. So if I had to pick just one, it is Serena Williams.
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post #158 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 05:13 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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Personally I'd attribute coming back from serious injuries more to desire and passion for the game than fight. When you talk about fighting on court (which was the point of this thread), there are 3 players sticking out.


She was extremely atrocious in handling the first set loss against Serena USO '12, Li AO'13, Sharapova USO '12, Cibulkova Miami '12, Kerber YEC '12, Li Madrid '12, Zvonareva AO '10, etc off the top of my head.
Losing a set isn't what would make her a weaker fighter, it's what she does AFTER she loses those sets, especially when being blown out. She fights harder, she steps up to the occasion, so I don't really understand what you're getting at with these examples...

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post #159 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 05:33 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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Losing a set isn't what would make her a weaker fighter, it's what she does AFTER she loses those sets, especially when being blown out. She fights harder, she steps up to the occasion, so I don't really understand what you're getting at with these examples...
Someone's sarcasm detector is soooo out of order or just never existed in the first place ...

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post #160 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 2013, 06:41 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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Losing a set isn't what would make her a weaker fighter, it's what she does AFTER she loses those sets, especially when being blown out. She fights harder, she steps up to the occasion, so I don't really understand what you're getting at with these examples...
Precisely my point tho.
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post #161 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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Precisely my point tho.
She shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence let alone thread as Maria and Serena in this department. Seriously, I don't know if you're like 80% Vika 20% Maria nowadays but her injury BS against Maria last year was the icing on the cake. Extremely injured in Stuttgart (righto) and the YEC disaster in which she was...fatigued? Dead. Real mental giant. Not saying she isn't a gritty fighter...just saying the isn't in the same vicinity as the other two atm.

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post #162 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

Errani.

I swear it baffles me how many times has she grinded out wins, she just fights for every ball like there's no tomorrow.

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post #163 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2013, 12:58 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

Kerber She runs down everything like her life depends on it.

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post #164 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2013, 01:10 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

1. viktoria

2. sara

3. serena

4. tamira

i thought this was settled way back?
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post #165 of 165 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 2013, 03:09 PM
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Re: What player on the tour is the biggest fighter?

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1. viktoria

2. sara

3. serena

4. tamira

i thought this was settled way back?


"Settled"? Like we all had a meeting together to have the discussion and came up with the result you posted? It's called "opinion" and everyone has a different one.
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