Was Kim Clijsters run at RG 2001 a fluke? - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Was Kim Clijsters run at RG 2001 a fluke?

Obviously, it was an accurate demonstration of her ability.
She's ranked #4 now, and basically hasn't gone backwards in the rankings since RG '01. So we're not discussing her overall ability.
What I'm asking is, is that particular tournament result more a matter of who she played than how she played?

Here's the draw.

28 May 2001 Roland Garros FRA

r1 W SALERNI 6-3 6-4
r2 W DIAZ-OLIVA 7-5 6-1
r3 W MARRERO 6-2 6-2
r4 W NAGYOVA 6-4 4-6 6-3
QF W MANDULA 6-1 6-3
SF W HENIN 2-6 7-5 6-3
FR L CAPRIATI 6-1 4-6 10-12

And the head to head vs Henin

2001 Indian Wells 32 Kim CLIJSTERS 1-6 6-4 6-3
2001 Roland Garros SF Kim CLIJSTERS 2-6 7-5 6-3
2001 's-Hertogenbosch FR Justine HENIN 4-6 6-3 3-6
2002 Sydney QF Kim CLIJSTERS 7-6 6-2
2002 Australian Open QF Kim CLIJSTERS 6-2 6-3
2002 Rome SF Justine HENIN 5-7 2-6
2002 Tour Champs QF Kim CLIJSTERS 6-2 6-1

It turns out that Henin vs Clijsters rather favors Henin.
So looking back, that was a damn easy draw.

And the GS tournaments since then haven't been kind.

01 U.S. Open GS QF L WILLIAMS (USA) 3-6 1-6
02 Australian Open GS SF L CAPRIATI (USA) 5-7 6-3 1-6
02 Roland Garros GS 32 L FERNANDEZ (ARG) 4-6 0-6
02 Wimbledon GS 64 L LIKHOVTSEVA (RUS) 6-7(5) 2-6
02 U.S. Open GS 16 L MAURESMO (FRA) 6-4 3-6 5-7

She can play. That isn't in dispute. I'd like to see another GS final soon though. Serena took two years between GS finals. Venus took three. Martina Hingis might be a better role model in this case.

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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 02:50 PM
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She was also on the brink of losing to Henin in the semis, but Justine choked. She took advantage of this and won, and did her best in the final. I wouldnt call it a fluke though, because it was well within her ability at the time. When all the seeds but one were knocked out of her half at RG, i expected Kim to come through. I would call it a fluke if she beat 3 top ten players to get to the final and never did it again, but not in this case. I guess it depends on what your definition of fluke is.
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 02:58 PM
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I definitely don't think it was a fluke.

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:03 PM
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I don´t think it´s a fluke perce, although Justine should have won that semi!! It´s not like she didn´t reach no other finals in big tourny´s or something. To me the Hantuchova win in Indian Wells is more a fluke. After she won that she didn´t do anything more the rest of the year!
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:42 PM
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No, it isn't!!!

She'll do it again in 2003 I hope!

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"When you do your best, it's always good enough" - Kim Clijsters

"No matter what happens, you have to try to stay positive, bad things can happen, but if you try to stay positive, something positive will come out of it…I believe that everything happens for a reason" - Kim Clijsters


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"Ca s’apprend par la souffrance, ça s’apprend par les déceptions, ça s’apprend par la densité du mal que ça te fait, plus ça te fait mal et plus ça te fait grandir. Y a des moments où tu te dis je ne vais pas le supporter, ça, ça fait trop mal, et pourtant tu passes au travers."
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:44 PM
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Ofcourse not!!!!!!!!!!

Come on Kim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:55 PM
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No, not a fluke... I know I had no expectations for Kim in 2001 for Roland Garros, cause her results in the warming-up tournaments were so terrible...
Bol: Diaz Oliva - Clijsters 0-6 6-2 6-4 (Kim was leading 6-0 2-0) OK, it was a semi-final, but that was a terrible loss.
Berlin: R1 Kremer - Clijsters 6-2 6-1
Rome: R2 (after Bye) Gagliardi - Clijsters 3-6 6-2 6-3

But we saw a different Kim at Roland Garros 2001...she had patience...and it paid off. First she had a qualifier, always dangerous, then Diaz Oliva (remember Bol), Marta Marrero (1/4 finalist in 2000)... In the 4th round she had a real test: Nagyova, always difficult to play when she's on, and she was Maybe 1/4-final was easy, but Mandula did beat Dokic... That semi-final was dramatic fot Justine, but Kim kept it together and played great at the end of the second set, third set she was simply the better player...

C'mon Belgians
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:15 PM
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I don't think it was a fluke... her performance & scoreline against Capriati in the final showed that for me.

She had to play some experienced clay courters there as well... it as definately not without its tests... as other higher ranked players not so good on clay would have been an easier opponent imho.
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:36 PM
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Yes.

Henin wasn't a top player either.

All the seeds dropped out early in the bottom half of the draw, except for two.

Venus Williams- Barbara Schett R1
Amelie Mauresmo - Jana Kandarr R1

Jelena Dokic - Petra Mandula R3
Anke Huber - Virginie Razzano R2

Nathalie Tauziat - Lina Krasnaroutskaya R1
Elena Dementieva - (Henrieta Nagyova R3? Not sure about this one)
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:38 PM
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Maybe Clijsters would have beaten these seeds - but the fact remains that she escaped all of them.
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:00 PM
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I was wrong - Huber wasn't seeded but Maleeva was and she lost to Farina-Elia R1.

Here's a better list -

2 Venus Williams lost R1
5 Amelie Mauresmo lost R1
7 Elena Dementieva lost R3
9 Nathalie Tauziat lost R1

12 Kim Clijsters
13 Maleeva lost R1
14 Justine Henin
15 Jelena Dokic lost R3

Other notable losses:

Anke Huber lost R2
Iva Majoli lost R1
Ruxandra Dragomir lost R1
Elena Likhovtseva lost R1
Ai Sugiyama lost R1

I don't think I remember a draw that opened up so much after the early rounds. Grande, Nagyova, Farina, Schett made the 4th round, Mandula and Krasnaroutskaya made the QF, and Clijsters made the final.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Caesar's Messenger - Starting with RG 2001, and running through OZ 2002, Kim made the semis or better in 10 out of 15 tournaments. Making the OZ final was admittedly the start, but it was in pattern. The girl kicked ass til she hurt her shoulder.

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Last edited by Volcana; Dec 22nd, 2002 at 07:17 PM.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:15 PM
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Volcana - I know

Kim was definately very lucky at RG 2001, but I wouldn't say that it was the only reason Kim got to the RG final. Like you said, Kim's ability is not in question. Kim has the potential to win a Grand Slam, but the Roland Garros final remains a fluke because of the seed collapse on the bottom half of the draw.
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:21 PM
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I don't think so. This result showed her potential as a player.
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:28 PM
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Okay I think there may be a disagreement as to the meaning of fluke. Iva Majoli won a Grand Slam yet I don't think it's unreasonable for some people to justify classifying Charleston 2002 as a fluke because of the draw and the players that Iva did not have to face.

To me, a fluke is based on luck - not on the ability of a player. If Serena Williams, the world #1, wins the Australian Open defeating 7 qualifiers that is a fluke to me.
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