"Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving" - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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"Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

OK, so this is largely stemming from the discussion about whether Graf would be the best in today's game. An argument often used in arguments of this kind is that the more recent great player is always better than the greatest player of the previous generation, simply because a sport as a general rule is constantly evolving.

Bearing this in mind, does this mean that Kvitova or Azarenka or whoever is the best player of their generation, will be automatically greater than Serena, even if they achieve less?

This isn't intended to be a trollbait thread (not entirely anyway ). It's not JUST this board that uses this type of logic, I've seen it used in all sorts of different sports where fans are trying to argue the greatest player/team of that day are better than a previous generation even if their achievements don't match up. And imo, if people think that the best player of "Generation Azarenka" WOULDN'T be better than Serena, then imo the logic is self-defeating and it can't be used when comparing the greats of today to former generations either

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post #2 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:46 PM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

Stupid question.

Azarenka/Kvitova will never belong to the class of players Serena/Graf belong to, so no.
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post #3 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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Originally Posted by JarkaFish View Post
Stupid question.

Azarenka/Kvitova will never belong to the class of players Serena/Graf belong to, so no.
But why? Surely if every generation is better than the previous one, it goes without saying that the best of the 2010s Generation will be greater than the best of the 2000s Generation?
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post #4 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:51 PM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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But why? Surely if every generation is better than the previous one, it goes without saying that the best of the 2010s Generation will be greater than the best of the 2000s Generation?
It's only 2013, I doubt Azarenka will be the stand out player of the 2010s at the end of the decade.
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post #5 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:52 PM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

there are some huge improvements in rackets, strings, pharmaseutical etc which make an impression that more recent players are better.... of course it's more an illusion

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post #6 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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It's only 2013, I doubt Azarenka/Kvitova will be the stand out player of the 2010s.
OK, then forget the Azarenka/Kvitova part. Whoever turns out to be the best player of their generation (who knows, maybe it would be Stephens or Robson, unlikely as it seems to me ), would they be automatically better than Serena? Even if they don't match her achievements or subjectively appear to have played at a higher level than her?
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post #7 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:53 PM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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"Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"
Who said this?

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post #8 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:53 PM
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It's not that the level is consistently better because technique is less of a priority to many players now. I think with tennis we have seen significant shifts in the caliber of play through the years. Each era has had a player or players come along and elevate the physicality of the game.

Navratilova would be the first example of adding more physical play due to her off court training. It stopped being about hitting balls all day and more about getting into to physical shape. She changed the game and the field had to adapt to keep up.

You could say the Williams sisters did the same when they arrived on tour and started taking it to top players. The power game matched up with their athletic ability forced the field to step up to be able to compete.

If a player is coming up the ranks now that will elevate the level of play even further it would be a great thing to see. If said player won 10-15 slams then I'm sure there will be those that say she is greater/better than Serena....but I won't hold my breath and wait for that to happen because I honestly can't see it happening.

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post #9 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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Who said this?
It's a common argument made by sports fans, including some people on this board in a debate about whether Serena or Graf at their peak play a higher level of tennis. The biggest argument in favour of Serena has been that every generation is better than the last, and ipso facto, Serena at her peak plays better than Graf.

(And, like I said in the OP, this isn't entirely inspired just by this particular argument This type of attitude is even more common among ATP commentators, where people claim that the current era is so strong that even Murray would beat the greats of previous generations, simply because the current era is supposedly so much stronger than previous ones.)
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post #10 of 88 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 2013, 11:58 PM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

I think the statement of the thread title is a myth, especially on WTA.
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post #11 of 88 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

This argument is fail.

Agnieszka, Caroline, Vika are not better than Serena, Venus, Kim, Justine. And probably they will never be.

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post #12 of 88 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:04 AM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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Originally Posted by Pops Maellard View Post
I think the statement of the thread title is a myth, especially on WTA.
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post #13 of 88 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

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Originally Posted by I_Will2 View Post
It's not that the level is consistently better because technique is less of a priority to many players now. I think with tennis we have seen significant shifts in the caliber of play through the years. Each era has had a player or players come along and elevate the physicality of the game.

Navratilova would be the first example of adding more physical play due to her off court training. It stopped being about hitting balls all day and more about getting into to physical shape. She changed the game and the field had to adapt to keep up.

You could say the Williams sisters did the same when they arrived on tour and started taking it to top players. The power game matched up with their athletic ability forced the field to step up to be able to compete.

If a player is coming up the ranks now that will elevate the level of play even further it would be a great thing to see. If said player won 10-15 slams then I'm sure there will be those that say she is greater/better than Serena....but I won't hold my breath and wait for that to happen because I honestly can't see it happening.
But see (and I really am trying to keep this as polite as possible so that this doesn't get locked ), here you are completely contradicting what you said in the other thread
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post #14 of 88 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:07 AM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

Change doesn't always mean improvement (certainly not in every aspect).

It could very well be the case that in certain type of skills, players might actually be deteriorating and getting worse (!) not better.
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post #15 of 88 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:15 AM
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Re: "Every generation is better than the previous one. The game is always evolving"

Oh dear. This is an admitted troll thread by the OP himself. Why is this not locked?

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