You really want to try and prove that the 90s generation is better. I wonder why. Actually in that case there is no proof that Graf/Seles were better than Navratilova/Evert either. The latter generation grew up with wood and had to adapt to graphite late in their careers. Who knows how their games would've turned out if graphite had caught on earlier. Would Evert have been the first power player on both wings instead of Seles? Who knows. What we do know is what actually happened. And the Williams sisters and their peers raised the female power game including the serve to levels not seen before. That's where the bar is and that's where it will be. Whether you like it or not. This BS about every generation must getter is silly. Tennis fans know when the bar has been raised.
And actually while on this point people like to disparage Generation Suck saying that they are not good but maybe the problem is that they haven't raised the bar above what Serena and co have done. That's why Serena is still able to win multiple slams today.
Again: I don't want to prove the 90s Generation is better than the current era. My whole point is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to definitively measure strength of an era, though my own personal view is that the 90s Generation and 00s Generation are roughly the same (stronger in some ways, weaker in others). Which is why the stats are the only quantifiable measuring stick.
So just because this current crop of players are not as good as those who came up in the early 2000's it means that the early 2000's era wasn't better than the 90's? How does that make any type of sense? I don't want to accuse you of trolling now, but..................
My point is that IF you accept that the new generation is NOT stronger than the Serena Generation, then how could you know that the Serena Generation is stronger than the Graf Generation? If by your own admission it is not true that each generation is better than the one that precedes it, what quantifiable basis is there for saying the Serena Generation is better than the Graf Generation? Apart from the fact the Williams sisters were better in one specific area (serving), which can be neutralised by the fact there are players in the new generation who are better in certain specific areas, I haven't heard any arguments yet.
Originally Posted by L'Enfant Sauvage
Thank you Vika
And the Kvitova comparison(assuming those stats are correct), doesn't hold. Even if she's hitting her groundstrokes a couple miles per hour faster than Serena, she hasn't revolutionized the game.
At the end of the day she's still playing the "big babe" style of tennis introduced by the Williams Sisters and Davenport towards the end of the 90s/early 2000s, of starting the point off with a dominating first serve, teeing off on second serves, hitting huge off of both wings even from defensive positions, and ultimately ending the point in only a few strokes. There's nothing revolutionary about playing an even lower percentage version of that game, and paling in comparison in terms of several other factors(serve compared to Serena, and movement compared to both WS). She's basically doing what Mary did a decade ago(as an aside, I highly doubt she's hitting top speeds higher than Mary or even Serena
I wanna see the receipts
I'm sorry, but again, this post is based on the circular argumentation that it HAS been universally-accepted that the Williams Generation was better than the previous one
But anyway, if you don't accept the Kvitova example -- Moby made an excellent point in the other thread that Stosur is capable of producing MUCH heavier topspin than any player in history, and, given how prevalent topspin is in the men's game (and it really is a general rule that trends in the men's game arrive in the women's game about 10 years later), she is certainly progressing the sport. Does that mean, just because Stosur is better than Serena in that one respect, that she is better player overall? I certainly don't think so (despite their record in Slams indicating otherwise
). And if you don't accept Stosur is revolutionising the game with her topspin, then I CERTAINLY don't accept that the Williams sisters revolutionised the game "just" by serving better than anyone else in the game before (and yes, the serve is the only area they exceeded all predecessors, despite American commentators' bizarre mythologising that they were the first to turn defence into attack, which doesn't stand up to scrutiny for anyone who's seen more than 10 minutes of Graf playing
* (And the BBC were going orgasmic after the 2011 Wimbledon final about how Kvitova was the "hardest hitter" at Wimbledon ever. They put up the average groundstroke speeds of the best matches from Venus/Serena/Sharapova and then showed Kvitova's average for that match. Admittedly, iirc the data MIGHT have just been based on Wimbledon matches alone.)