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post #361 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:05 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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^ What's so special about that?

Shazza 2.0 hits much higher DFs by default.

Nothing unusual about that. It's a calculated risk she takes - it's basically an integrated part of her game.
I was talking about 1st serve from the beginning. I never mentioned dfs.
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post #362 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:05 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

Agassi is right

Lol at the tards suggesting Steffi wouldn't be able to break Manicurena on grass when Puffnieska Radwanska took a set out of the "grass beast"

Last edited by pierce85; Feb 1st, 2013 at 11:23 AM.
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post #363 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:19 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Originally Posted by nat75 View Post
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If somebody was about to win a match with backhand winners alone then Gaby Sabatini would has been one of the best of all time. :split: Clijsters didn't even eat 40 somwthing year old Steffi alive, did she?
And courts are slower know than they were in Steffi's prime. This would benefit her greatly.
My dear lets face the truth
that was an exhibition

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Originally Posted by JarkaFish View Post
Exactly and even Caro can go toe to toe with her
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post #364 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
Why has this turn into a Steffi vs Serena-battle?! Agassi said Graf would the best, thus better than ANYBODY? Right now Serena isn't even no.1, yet the only player being discussed and belittled is her.

Why hasn't Douchesanders discussed how Vika, how Maria...would do against Steffi on ANY surface?
That's more interesting. We've already seen Serena vs Steffi. 1-1, two tough three-setters.
don't be a moron. of course serena is #1. nobody cares about this silly ranking system. it will always be a battle between graf and serena, which serena wins.
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post #365 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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My dear lets face the truth
that was an exhibition



Exactly and even Caro can go toe to toe with her
Let's be clear, dear. Steffi was forty something and it wasn't llke Kim was playing it easy for her. And Date is forty something and she still makes 3rd rounds at grand slams when she never even won one at the Steffi "fluke" era (as you said).
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post #366 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:33 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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don't be a moron. of course serena is #1. nobody cares about this silly ranking system. it will always be a battle between graf and serena, which serena wins.

Get off your high horse Don Quijote
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post #367 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:33 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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don't be a moron. of course serena is #1. nobody cares about this silly ranking system. it will always be a battle between graf and serena, which serena wins.
You have to prove she wins.
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post #368 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:37 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

^ That's what I love about Kimiko - she's the living, breathing proof of how truly the game has allegedly "evolved"
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post #369 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 11:39 AM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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^ That's what I love about Kimiko - she's the living, breathing proof of how truly the game has "evolved"


I was thinking the exact same, she makes these arguments so much easier.
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post #370 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 01:20 PM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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What on earth does that mean?

How does a player "neutralize" opponent's double-faults?
Double faulting makes the ball acidic, so before serving again the balls should be dipped in ammonia. I thought everyone knew that. Vika, being the player that she is will do that for Masha. It's a mind game.
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post #371 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Saying Graf is one of the best of her era, is akin to saying that Roger is one of the best of his era. A major understatement.

As for Steffi's speed, it's not as if she trained with the German track and field team and ran an Olympics qualifying time for one of the sprint events.
So yeah, she was "probably one of the fastest" out there.

Serena has probably one of the best serves of her era, "relative" to other players.

As for serve-and-volleying, just watch these 60s mugs strolling to the net and poking the ball around with their 60 square-inch wooden rackets.

Please tell me you were joking (unsuccessfully, may I add) with that last part. Rod Laver and Ken Rosewall were two of the greatest to ever pick up a racquet. Period.

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post #372 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Originally Posted by nat75 View Post
Let's be clear, dear. Steffi was forty something and it wasn't llke Kim was playing it easy for her. And Date is forty something and she still makes 3rd rounds at grand slams when she never even won one at the Steffi "fluke" era (as you said).
Dear it was an Exhibition and age is irrelevant..It was just a public Display to
entertain the crowd and 2nd Date's 3rd round run is not the barometer of what would be
steffi's ranking if she played this season In fact Date was just lucky not with the
Draw but with how her opponents played..Try to think that even Date was able to trouble graf
in the latter part of her career.
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post #373 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
Why has this turn into a Steffi vs Serena-battle?! Agassi said Graf would the best, thus better than ANYBODY? Right now Serena isn't even no.1, yet the only player being discussed and belittled is her.

Why hasn't Douchesanders discussed how Vika, how Maria...would do against Steffi on ANY surface?
That's more interesting. We've already seen Serena vs Steffi. 1-1, two tough three-setters.
Peak Graf certainly beats Peak Maria and Peak Princessrenka on every surface.

(Though, lol at the suggestion that Maria would've had no chance of winning a RG title in Graf's era. Again, this misconception sums up how little many people here seem to know about Graf, that they think she was some claycourt specialist or something. Clay was her worst surface by far; she had some of her worst defeats there, and even when she won, she often did it by playing very ugly tennis. Even though peak-v-peak Graf would beat Maria on clay, I certainly think 2012 Claypova could've beaten for example 1994 Graf at RG, the Graf that got beat down by Pierce. Granted, I don't think Maria would've won a Wimbledon final against any version of Graf though, because Steffi was simply THAT good on grass even in her off-years.)

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Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
He did not say that his wife at age 43 would be among the best today; he said that her game from the mid-90s would hold up today. Personally, I think he's right, because true greatness transcends time.
Yup. Andre does say specifically that he's NOT talking about Steffi as a 43-year-old, he's talking about prime, 20something Steffi hypothetically going up against the current field.

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Originally Posted by TheDream View Post
Let's not act as if Graf is all that faster than Serena. In fact, I'd say up until 2003 Serena was the fastest women's player ever. Graf definitely is more nimble, sharper footwork, and light on her feet, but Serena's movement was just so explosive and powerful. I definitely think she was off the mark faster than Graf or anyone else. Even at 31, with two major surgeries on her knee and foot respectively, Serena is still one of the fastest movers out there by far. She had the knee surgery in 2003, and when she returned it was obvious her mobility was hampered. Serena definitely could have competed on even an Olympic track team IMO.
No, Serena doesn't have as good raw footspeed as Graf, and even if the gap between them in raw footspeed is *relatively* small, there's a yawning chasm between them in overall defensive abilities, because of the fact Steffi's footwork is so much better, and the fact she has the ability to play better and smarter defensive shots when pushed out wide (including, yes, that backhand slice, which allows her to whip back balls that Serena with her full swings on the defence could never get anywhere close to the court).

The only woman in the past 20 years who even has an argument for being a better defensive player than Graf is Clijsters.
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post #374 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 03:24 PM
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
He did not say that his wife at age 43 would be among the best today; he said that her game from the mid-90s would hold up today. Personally, I think he's right, because true greatness transcends time.
I was addressing those who felt that Graf cold still successfully compete today.
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Saying Graf is one of the best of her era, is akin to saying that Roger is one of the best of his era. A major understatement.
Sure, but it's one of those undeniable facts. It also no where near a supposition like those in this thread suggesting that her game of the 90s would hold up against today's competition; which cannot be, and never will be, proven.

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post #375 of 495 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2013, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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I was addressing those who felt that Graf cold still successfully compete today.
No-one has claimed Graf AS SHE IS TODAY (as a 43-year-old) would be able to compete. We're talking about IF GRAF WAS BORN 15 YEARS LATER AND WAS COMPETING IN HER PRIME IN THIS ERA.

Please join Bandabou in taking some reading comprehension lessons.
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