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post #16 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 02:59 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Kvitova anyone?
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post #17 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Originally Posted by Drake Ramoray View Post
There're no certain model of what top players should be like. Now the top 3 are either too tall or too heavy to run fast. Maybe next generation there could be 3 fast runners on top, someone's gonna complain about lack of power then.

ps: Vika's footwork isn't bad imo, at least not the same level with Petra.
Right but look at the list of players who have recently retired or are from the previous generation:
Hingis
Capriati
Serena
Venus
Henin
Clijsters
Dementieva
Kuznetsova
Myskina
Mauresmo


Yes, you have Sharapova, Seles and Davenport, but when you look at the above, you are looking at players with very different games but who were all incredibly speedy on the court. And you're also looking at the best players of that generation. With the exception of Dementieva, they've all won slams. And the likes of the Williams sisters, Hingis, Henin, etc. are historically great players, too. There may not be a mold to fill, but it seems to me that if you were starting your career like 10-15 years ago, you had to play a game based around speed and power.
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post #18 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:11 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Many players are just plain lazy.
They're satisfied with their lifestyle and their income.

Nowadays, any hard worker could jump up from #70 to #35 in three months as all the girls are prettu much on the same level but only a few are willing to go the extra mile.
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post #19 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:13 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Again, with Monica, she needed some of the greatest groundstrokes EVER to compensate for her lack of athleticism.

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post #20 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:14 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

When? I doubt you could find a single moment. It was probably gradual, Davenport was just one of the first of what's now the majority.

As for why, there's multiple reasons. The short answer is that the game has changed, making speed less important. Courts are slower for one thing, racquet/string technology allows the ball to be hit harder and with more control, both of which favour training for power rather than speed. There have also been advances in training and nutrition due to research and technology moving on making training for power over speed more effective/viable. Ultimately, those changes have combined to make foot speed less important when playing from the baseline, and its happened from the bottom (i.e. juniors learning a baseline style where power > speed). This shit happens in sports. There's a reason why nobody uses the WM formation in football and people don't use serve and volley as a primary playstyle any more. Eventually something will change in tennis again. We shall see.
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post #21 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:16 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Are Failniacki and Hagathav really that irrelevant?

The issue isn't that speed has become less important, since there have always been a fair share or top 10 players who could be defined as slow pokes. It's that there are very, very few players of this generation who are fast and have a big game.

Grassonkova.
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post #22 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:23 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

On the contraty, Kerber only got up the rankings when she dramatically improved her fitness.

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post #23 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:33 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
WFrom Hingis and Capriati to Clijsters and Venus, these girls were relentless runners and could get to just about anything that's not struck perfectly.
The idea that any of those players is more athletic than Azarenka, Radwanska, Kerber, Wozniacki, etc is ludicrous. Quicker? Maybe but I'm not convinced. More athletic, greater endurance? No, not at all. Plus the ball is generally moving faster than it ever has.

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post #24 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:37 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Originally Posted by Crater718 View Post
I want both . A players that hits like a freight train and runs like a gazelle.
Then we'll have to wait for the first cyborg player showing up in the tour


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post #25 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:42 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Well there's the top 3 and the crazy BBBs GS Champions Kvitova and Li Na who are the modern slam pedigree.

Of the top 3 Serena is fast and pounds on the other two regularly. She also has lopsided H2Hs with Kvitova and Li. She was never able to beat Venus, Henin or Capriati with such casual regularity. So I think speed still is important. It's just that we've always taken it for a given in Serena - but in Serena we see how important speed is to stay at a competitive top 3 level across all surfaces.

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(1)A lot is being made of the record Serena has vs Sharapova. It is being used as THE reason she will win again lol. Good thing we have players like Tomas Berdych (who had an even worse record vs Nadal) to remind us of the fallacy of this nonsense logic.
(2)You stans may as well sleep well tonight because tomorrow the a replay of Lucie's winning moment over and over again will haunt your dreams for weeks to come
(3)The stars have aligned perfectly for the upset of the 21st century. All the best Garbine
(4) There is no path to victory for Williams.Keys wins in straight easy sets.
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post #26 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:49 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
Right but look at the list of players who have recently retired or are from the previous generation:
Hingis
Capriati
Serena
Venus
Henin
Clijsters
Dementieva
Kuznetsova
Myskina
Mauresmo


Yes, you have Sharapova, Seles and Davenport, but when you look at the above, you are looking at players with very different games but who were all incredibly speedy on the court. And you're also looking at the best players of that generation. With the exception of Dementieva, they've all won slams. And the likes of the Williams sisters, Hingis, Henin, etc. are historically great players, too. There may not be a mold to fill, but it seems to me that if you were starting your career like 10-15 years ago, you had to play a game based around speed and power.
Like the bang-maniac just said, nowadays the game played in a different style. And it actually started from the last generation. You can see how Hingis have ruled the tour during 1997-1999, then couldn't win slams any more. She's like the transitional figure of the tour. And Serena, Venus, Lindsay and Justine eventually took over control represent the transition's done. And even if you say Venus and Justine are speedy, the power is just as important, if not more important, in their game-play.


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post #27 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:51 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

at the same time we have ATP and Murray who can run first 20-30 meters as fast as Usain Bolt and "on his best day he can do 27 pull-ups, and push 500lb on the leg-press"

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post #28 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:54 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
It's not speed, it's the lack of athleticism IMHO.

There are no great athletes in women's tennis anymore.
For someone like Lindsay Davenport to compete, she had to have one of the greatest forehand-backhand-serve-return combinations in tennis history.
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Originally Posted by nemurenai View Post
Women's tennis doesn't seem to attract the best athletes anymore. I think that must be part of the reason. That and, as mentioned above, the fact that it suffices most of the time to just ballbash. If you can win like that, you don't need to be a good athlete and thus, you can make your way to the top of a rather lucrative sport while being athletically (very) mediocre or poor.
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Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
Again, with Monica, she needed some of the greatest groundstrokes EVER to compensate for her lack of athleticism.


This guy is an athlete. There's more to "athleticism" than being able to move fast. Players like Robson, Kvitova and the other postergirls of "slow moving hard hitters" that you can think of are athletic. There's a reason why they can generate power with their shots that other players can't and a lack of athleticism isn't the reason.

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Originally Posted by Wiggly View Post
Many players are just plain lazy.
They're satisfied with their lifestyle and their income.
Yeah, I'm not buying that as a theory. Since this applies to players outside the top 100 (who can struggle to afford to continue playing and thus don't have much cause to rest on their low net income) as well as the top players.

Quote:
Nowadays, any hard worker could jump up from #70 to #35 in three months as all the girls are pretty much on the same level but only a few are willing to go the extra mile.
Or alternatively the fact that there's less than 500 points between #35 and #70 (a gap that could be spanned with a few good runs at MM tourneys, of which there are 6 between the start of Febuary and the start of May, ignoring points that could be gained in Premier qualies).

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Originally Posted by NashaMasha View Post
at the same time we have ATP and Murray who can run first 20-30 meters as fast as Usain Bolt and "on his best day he can do 27 pull-ups, and push 500lb on the leg-press"
Is tennis' anti-doping programme still as much of a joke as cycling's was before they cracked down on it?
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post #29 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

slowing of the surfaces

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post #30 of 109 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: When and why did speed become less important?

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Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
When you look at the top players of the "previous generation," it seemed like being extraordinarily quick was a foundation of almost everyone's game. From Hingis and Capriati to Clijsters and Venus, these girls were relentless runners and could get to just about anything that's not struck perfectly. Obviously, Serena is still out there, and she's super fast, but players like Azarenka and Kvitova are not particularly fast players, and I can't imagine how much better their games would be if they were even half-a-step quicker. (And even Sharapova and Ivanovic don't have the same speed that "older" players had.) And it just seems like maybe it's not as important?

Thoughts? Am I totally off the mark here? There are players like Wozniacki and Radwanska who are quick, but they're like cheaper, corner-store versions of Clijsters and Hingis, etc.
Not sure what you're talking about but Azza is fast - very fast (especially acceleration wise) that is in fact her speciality, as it enables her to get to the ball early.

That is what led her to the top of the ranking and also directly enabled her to dominate the likes of Pova despite not hitting exactly as hard as them off the ground
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Last edited by Raiden; Jan 16th, 2013 at 04:03 PM.
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