If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 958
                     
If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

My full question was if Evert and Navratilova of the 80s were somehow transported via a time machine to todays date how far would they go in a Grand Slam?

Its interesting to note that Evert had transformed herself from a wooden racket to a graphite one and was hitting significantly harder showing a lot of adaptability to the new developing game.

As this video shows she had adapted to the new breed of power hitters started by Graf, though her age and patience levels had gone so she didn't post any late career wins over graf but took her out when she was younger.

renstar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 01:08 AM
Senior Member
 
Helen Lawson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for Shirley
Posts: 19,302
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

The final is Serena versus the one who wasn't on Serena's side of the draw.

Whitney Houston and her receipts:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthrea...17447&page=324
Helen Lawson is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 01:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Helen Lawson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for Shirley
Posts: 19,302
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

At the French, Chrissie and Martina make the final against each other.

Whitney Houston and her receipts:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthrea...17447&page=324
Helen Lawson is offline  
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 958
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen Lawson View Post
The final is Serena versus the one who wasn't on Serena's side of the draw.
I think your right lol..... Martina would be decimating Wozniacki in the first round. Chrissy the true queen of the baseline take out Azarenka and Martina send Shrieking Povas shots back with a few volley winners
renstar is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 01:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Nicolás89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,977
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

No.

LEGEND. Nicole. Caro. Aga. Sloane. Taylor.
Nicolás89 is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 02:02 AM
Serena's #1 Hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 19,717
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Interesting question. With modern racquets and strings, Evert and Navratilova are actually hitting the ball harder in their 50s than they ever did in their 20s and 30s. If they were both in their physical prime today, I have to believe that they would be no worse than #3 and #4 in the rankings.

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing, and obtains favor from the Lord." -- Proverbs 18:22

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." -- Herb Brooks

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -- Muhammad Ali
darrinbaker00 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 958
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
Interesting question. With modern racquets and strings, Evert and Navratilova are actually hitting the ball harder in their 50s than they ever did in their 20s and 30s. If they were both in their physical prime today, I have to believe that they would be no worse than #3 and #4 in the rankings.
Have you seen Navratilova serve lately, last time I did in some legends type match it was a light arm roll over, her shoulder must be severely f***d, but her groundstrokes she may be hitting harder these days. Look forward to seeing her play Hingis in the Adelaide exhibition in the next few days.
renstar is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 05:08 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,645
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

I think if you transported prime or near-prime versions of them to this time period you also have to take into consideration how they would respond to the power of OTHER players. They would both benefit from the technological improvements, but how would they react when getting belted with 120+ mph serves and players hitting groundstrokes harder than the the first serves they had to handle? If you rephrase the question to say, if you give them a year to get used to the conditions, I'd actually say Chrissie would be in better shape to do damage. Her game just looks like it fits more, whereas there has been some debate over how Martina's S&V game would do. I mean I can't count how many times mediocre passes are made simply because of the technology at modern players' disposal. Chrissie compared her game to Wozniacki(which I strongly disagree with ) but if Wozniacki can hold the YE#1 spot for back to back years with her all out defense, there's no reason Chrissie couldn't do far more than that as someone who defended and anticipated well in addition to turning defense to offense light years better with some spectacular passes and pin point precision(and could also handle herself at net.)

In this scenario Evert would find that the clay field is wide open, so she could definitely go back to cleaning up several titles a year there including RG. Martina on the other hand would be very disappointed to find that carpet is gone, a player can only usually play 1 grass tournament other than Wimbledon, and at Wimbledon she would have to deal with Serena whose serve is the biggest weapon in WTA history on that surface. And as for the rest of the tour, it's mainly on slow-ish HCs which would not be the best surface for her game. I mean, she could still do well a la Mauresmo, but I definitely expect Chrissie to be the one who would adjust easier. Of course Martina was intensely competitive and driven so she'd probably find a way to do whatever it takes to get at the top, but Chris is the safer bet.

XIX
Alejandrawrrr is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 05:14 AM
Senior Member
 
ACEof DIAMONDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,035
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Who can honestly say, are we taking the advances of training regimen, medicine, evolution of the human body itself etc. etc. etc. into account too?

Nearly impossible to answer this question. Anyone attempting to answer the question is throwing darts blindly at a dart board.
ACEof DIAMONDS is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 06:45 AM
Sunset, Moonrise, Winter
 
Sam L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Shangri-La
Posts: 35,249
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
Interesting question. With modern racquets and strings, Evert and Navratilova are actually hitting the ball harder in their 50s than they ever did in their 20s and 30s. If they were both in their physical prime today, I have to believe that they would be no worse than #3 and #4 in the rankings.
It goes both ways.

They will be facing harder hitting opponents than they ever have in their careers.

How will Navratilova volley against these bullet passing shots? Can Chris maintain her consistency when she's been forced into errors?

You can't just say they will be more powerful and leave it at that.
Sam L is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 958
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
It goes both ways.

They will be facing harder hitting opponents than they ever have in their careers.

How will Navratilova volley against these bullet passing shots? Can Chris maintain her consistency when she's been forced into errors?

You can't just say they will be more powerful and leave it at that.
Well Seles in the early 90s was, I believe, hitting the ball as hard as a lot of women are now and Martina was able to adapt and kept it very close with Seles. Chrissy was also to keep up with STeffi who also hit with tremendous power.

I don't buy this current lot are hitting with way more power. Don't forget back then they hit a lot flatter and today's topsin also makes it look like they are hitting a lot harder whereas they are hitting hard with a lot of topspin. A hard hit flat shot is a lot harder to handle than a hard hit topspin.

Also look at the calibre of first round, second round and third round opponents in today's grand slams. Chrissy and Martina would eat them for breakfast so they at least would be getting to quarter finals. One thing that always stays constant in the generations is a champions mindset. A champions mindset will always win against the journeywoman, thats just the way it is.
renstar is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 07:18 AM
Serena's #1 Hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 19,717
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
It goes both ways.

They will be facing harder hitting opponents than they ever have in their careers.

How will Navratilova volley against these bullet passing shots? Can Chris maintain her consistency when she's been forced into errors?

You can't just say they will be more powerful and leave it at that.
I can, and I did. If a 49-year-old Navratilova was hitting 105 MPH serves, it's reasonable to assume that a 29-year-old Navratilova would top 120 herself. It is also reasonable to assume that she would alter her game to fit this era and not come in behind her serve as often as she did during her time. Lastly, champions are champions, period. Evert and Navratilova would have been at the top of the game in any era, just like Serena Williams and Suzanne Lenglen would have.

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing, and obtains favor from the Lord." -- Proverbs 18:22

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." -- Herb Brooks

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -- Muhammad Ali
darrinbaker00 is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 07:20 AM
Serena's #1 Hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 19,717
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by renstar View Post
Well Seles in the early 90s was, I believe, hitting the ball as hard as a lot of women are now and Martina was able to adapt and kept it very close with Seles. Chrissy was also to keep up with STeffi who also hit with tremendous power.

I don't buy this current lot are hitting with way more power. Don't forget back then they hit a lot flatter and today's topsin also makes it look like they are hitting a lot harder whereas they are hitting hard with a lot of topspin. A hard hit flat shot is a lot harder to handle than a hard hit topspin.

Also look at the calibre of first round, second round and third round opponents in today's grand slams. Chrissy and Martina would eat them for breakfast so they at least would be getting to quarter finals. One thing that always stays constant in the generations is a champions mindset. A champions mindset will always win against the journeywoman, thats just the way it is.
You beat me to it.

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing, and obtains favor from the Lord." -- Proverbs 18:22

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." -- Herb Brooks

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -- Muhammad Ali
darrinbaker00 is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 07:29 AM
Sunset, Moonrise, Winter
 
Sam L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Shangri-La
Posts: 35,249
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by renstar View Post
Well Seles in the early 90s was, I believe, hitting the ball as hard as a lot of women are now and Martina was able to adapt and kept it very close with Seles. Chrissy was also to keep up with STeffi who also hit with tremendous power.

I don't buy this current lot are hitting with way more power. Don't forget back then they hit a lot flatter and today's topsin also makes it look like they are hitting a lot harder whereas they are hitting hard with a lot of topspin. A hard hit flat shot is a lot harder to handle than a hard hit topspin.

Also look at the calibre of first round, second round and third round opponents in today's grand slams. Chrissy and Martina would eat them for breakfast so they at least would be getting to quarter finals. One thing that always stays constant in the generations is a champions mindset. A champions mindset will always win against the journeywoman, thats just the way it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
I can, and I did. If a 49-year-old Navratilova was hitting 105 MPH serves, it's reasonable to assume that a 29-year-old Navratilova would top 120 herself. It is also reasonable to assume that she would alter her game to fit this era and not come in behind her serve as often as she did during her time. Lastly, champions are champions, period. Evert and Navratilova would have been at the top of the game in any era, just like Serena Williams and Suzanne Lenglen would have.
It's fine if you think that mentally they will be up there. That I agree with. But that is saying if born today Suzanne Lenglen will still be a champion because she has the heart and will of a champion. But that's not what you said. What you said initially was that they will be hitting harder and therefore will be top players. That's not the same.

Neither player will play the style of game we were used to seeing them play. It's not as simple as just picking up graphite racquets and hitting it harder.

Also, if Serena Williams wasn't around in the last few years, how many slams will Kvitova have? Azarenka have? Sharapova have? It's so easy to write off a generation but not seeing how good one player is.

I still say at her best Serena Williams beats everyone else 99% of the time.
Sam L is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2013, 07:41 AM
Sunset, Moonrise, Winter
 
Sam L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Shangri-La
Posts: 35,249
                     
Re: If late 80s Evert and Navratilova appeared her by a time machine-how far in GS?

Also, you all talk as if changing your game is such an easy thing. Do you really think it would be easy for a natural volleyer like Navratilova to try and stay back more?

For me, this is all pure fantasy. I could just say Charlotte Dod if given all the right equipment and born 20 years ago will be beating Serena Williams right now.

What we do know in tennis is that it is a physical sport and there are certain players who are considered transformational players in the way they approached fitness and/or the game like Navratilova, Seles and Williams sisters.

Because of them I find that it will be hard for previous generations to compete against the next.

I think Wills playing like the way she did could've been a great challenger to say Connolly. But to Serena Williams? Not sure.
Sam L is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome