If Serena ended her career with 18slams..... - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Just thinking of an interesting scenario if Serena ended her career tied with Navratilova and Evert with 18 slams would people put her ahead of Evert and Navratilova in the GOAT list or not? I also think some will start claiming shes better than Steffi and number 1 GOAT.

I think Evert and Navratilova were much more consistent in the non GS tournaments and displayed more court craft rather than just trying to crush opponents with muscle power and aces.

Just my two cents worth.
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post #2 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 01:40 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Even if she doesn't win 18 slams she will be the all time great, well for me at least. I mean she has the complete game - and her serve is incredibly good.

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post #3 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 01:45 AM
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They are all goats to me. Kinda pointless to compare among the four of them

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post #4 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 02:00 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

She doesn't really have the stats and career achievements to deserve to be called the absolute GOAT imho.

You could argue that she has the highest level of play, but career achievements is what it really boils down to in any sport.
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post #5 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 02:01 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

I think Serena has the best game you could ever expect a tennis player to have, at least that we've seen so far. Navratilova and Evert were great players but they both had areas where they could strongly get better. That being said, Serena hasn't had as much success outside GS as Nav and Chris did so I don't know. If we're talking about best PLAYER I'd go with Serena, but if we're talking about best results/achievement Navratilova and Evert could have an edge, I think Graf would still be consdiered better....if we NEED to rank them I'd go Graf, Serena, Evert/Navratilova. Serena as all the time to surpass Graf tho, she's really close to her in my opinion.

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post #6 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincey! View Post
I think Serena has the best game you could ever expect a tennis player to have
No.

Ball bashing isn't tennis.
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post #7 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 02:28 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Yeah, don't even mention the woman who won more grand slams (24) AND overall titles (194) than anyone. Or Helen Wills Moody, who has the third most slams (19).

If Serena were to win 18, she'd still be where she is now in the order, IMO:

1. Court.
2. Graf.
3. Wills Moody.
4. Evert/Navratilova (interchangeable really).
6. Williams.
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post #8 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 03:02 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

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Yeah, don't even mention the woman who won more grand slams (24) AND overall titles (194) than anyone. Or Helen Wills Moody, who has the third most slams (19).

If Serena were to win 18, she'd still be where she is now in the order, IMO:

1. Court.
2. Graf.
3. Wills Moody.
4. Evert/Navratilova (interchangeable really).
6. Williams.
I'd argue that Graf should be at least joint first with Court. While she does have fewer WTA titles and slams than Court, the fact that she win her titles on a wider variety of court types indicates that her game was more versatile than Court who won her slams on grass and clay alone (whereas Steffi did so on grass, clay and two different types of hard court) and could therefore be argued as a better player, or at least a player shown to be effective in situations where Court has not.
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post #9 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 03:12 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Good question!

I think Serena deserves to be recongised as one of the sport's greatest but not necessarily the greatest for one reason only and it isn't an issue for Serena hasn't needed to develop it but Serena is not known for being great at the net.

Serena is clearly the greatest player of her generation

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post #10 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

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Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
I'd argue that Graf should be at least joint first with Court. While she does have fewer WTA titles and slams than Court, the fact that she win her titles on a wider variety of court types indicates that her game was more versatile than Court who won her slams on grass and clay alone (whereas Steffi did so on grass, clay and two different types of hard court) and could therefore be argued as a better player, or at least a player shown to be effective in situations where Court has not.
When did Margaret ever even have the chance to play on hard, though?
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post #11 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 05:42 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Sorry, the whole Slam-counting thing for choosing Court as the greatest doesn't reflect how poor the draws were for the Australian for many years. If Court was indeed the greatest ever, she would've had greater success in the other 3 majors than Graf, Navratilova, or Evert, and she simply didn't. Court was a great player, don't get me wrong, but better than the other 3 (or Serena in my opinion)? Don't think so.
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post #12 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 06:12 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

IDK, while I personally already rate Serena among them I think it's pointless to compare between them.
It's just hard to look past all the other GS Finals, titles, weeks at #1, years of dominance Navrat and Evert have.

I would still place Steffi on a tier above those 3 though.

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Last edited by jameshazza; Dec 22nd, 2012 at 06:19 PM.
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post #13 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 07:45 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

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Originally Posted by tommyk75 View Post
Sorry, the whole Slam-counting thing for choosing Court as the greatest doesn't reflect how poor the draws were for the Australian for many years. If Court was indeed the greatest ever, she would've had greater success in the other 3 majors than Graf, Navratilova, or Evert, and she simply didn't. Court was a great player, don't get me wrong, but better than the other 3 (or Serena in my opinion)? Don't think so.
A few misconceptions need to be cleared here:

1. Take away ALL of Court's AOs, and she still has 13 slams.

2. She won 5/10 of the FOs that she played.

3. She actually did beat players like Bueno, King, Richey and Goolagong in some of her wins there.

4. Sure, some draws were easy, but are you telling me that none of the others ever had easy draws? Please, just look at Serena's latest wins. She beat none of Venus, Kim or Justine. Why do the tough draws only seem to be a problem for Margaret? Graf's biggest rival was taken out of the game ffs, and look at some of the pitiful draws that Evert and Navratilova had.

5. Margaret was considered an all-rounder, a rarity who played just as well at the net as at the back. The AO suited her game to a tee, just as other players have been more successful at one slam than the others (often winning more at 1 than all of the others combined, like Venus winning 5/7 at W, Justine 4/7 at the FO, Hingis 3/5 at the AO, and Navratilova dead even with 9/18 at W).
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post #14 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 07:46 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshazza View Post
IDK, while I personally already rate Serena among them I think it's pointless to compare between them.
It's just hard to look past all the other GS Finals, titles, weeks at #1, years of dominance Navrat and Court have.

I would still place Steffi on a tier above those 3 though.
Why exactly?
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post #15 of 435 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Re: If Serena ended her career with 18slams.....

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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
Even if she doesn't win 18 slams she will be the all time great, well for me at least. I mean she has the complete game - and her serve is incredibly good.
Are you the incarnation of bias?
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